2. Are you suggesting that there has been violence, like molotov cocktails by PROTESTERS in Minneapolis after Alex Pretti was beaten and murdered for helping a woman that wash assaulted by ICE types? Because, you KNOW don't you, that the violence and murders have come from ICE, not the protesters?
3. Or are you comparing throwing snowballs at ICE to the actual violence by ICE?
4. Pretti was a helper, a good person siding with someone who had been shoved down/assaulted to defend them, just like he helped veterans daily in his nursing job.
5. Kirk was a provocateur who made all sorts of accusations and got rich by spreading his false claims and attacks.
1. Sorry, I can't read your mind and you'd bitch and moan if I tried to figure out what this means.
2. I am stating the absolute fact that there have been more Molotov cocktails thrown in MPLS by those on the left than by those on the right in the past 15 years. I am stating as an absolute fact that MPLS left wing protesters have a history of throwing Molotov cocktails, as well as other deadly projectiles at LE and innocent bystanders.
3. If by "snowballs" you mean actual chunks/bottles of ice... I can't decide if your ignorance of the "anti-ICE" violence in MSP over the past few weeks is intentional or stupidity.
4. As time goes on we are getting a more complete picture of Pretti, and it (as often happens with left wing martyrs) isn't what y'all desperately want it to be. It's strange that a nurse who just wanted to be a "helper" chose to pack a "military grade" gun when he was chasing ICE agents instead of a first aid kit or medical supplies.
5. What in interesting excuse for him being killed, the weeks of death threats against his family, the false and hateful rhetoric used to justify his murder, and your own callous indifference to the harm being perpetrated by your side.
That you choose to slander Kirk, while (once again) beatifying the most recent leftist martyr while bitching about slander is hilarious, although expected.
That you've committed to a narrative before all of the facts and information have come out, is also hilarious and also expected.
Speaking of: By this time, it's clear that Pretti was assaulted, maced and had his gun removed BEFORE the murdered him in cold blood. Are you EVER going to stand against these fascist thugs and their dangerous assault on US citizens?
While it may be "clear" to you in your incredibly well educated and expert opinion, I'm not sure that your statement of fact will hold up as more information comes out.
Strangely enough, it is clear that Pretti had interfered with ICE (a physical altercation) previously, was interfering with ICE agents before he was shot, and that he was much more than an innocent bystander.
Your choice to lie and slander is strange to say the least. As your assumptive claim that I have "chosen" ICE agents as "heroes" cannot be based on anything that I have done or said, I can only assume that you believe that lying about me somehow helps you.
Most of what I said about the Good shooting, applies to this one as well. They were both tragic and could have been avoided. But why pay attention to what I've actually said, when you can make shit up and lie.
I've decided to no longer refer to these deaths as "tragic". "Deserved" is more accurate, though I won't be using that without explanation. But "tragic" should be reserved for those who had nothing to do with bringing about their deaths. Both Good and Pretti don't fall into that category.
You do you, but any death which was so easily avoidable could reasonably be referred to as tragic. That they played a starring role in the events that led to the tragedies is part and parcel of the whole story.
--A soldier running into battle can result in his death. That's tragic. --The cops who ran into the WTC before the fell on and crushed them. That's tragic. --Lawbreakers running to break laws and die in the process? Karma. Not tragic.
Given Dan's choice to ignore one of the few rule of conduct I have here and after multiple examples of me showing grace to him when he doesn't, his recent comment will be aborted.
After living through the Summer of Love, the siege of the 2nd precinct, and many other instances of violence directed at both LE and innocent bystanders, I can only imagine the intentional blindness that you must contend with. That you choose to ignore the fact that ICE deported and killed significantly more during the P-BO reign alone, to focus on these two tragic, and preventable deaths, shows your partisan hackery. That you choose to ignore the left wing violence of the past few weeks in MSP, ditto. That you ignore the role played by city, county, and state government officials in the situation, ditto. Finally, MSP is a small percentage of the criminal illegal aliens that have been detained and deported over the last year, yet in no other metro area do we see this kind of violence and interference. One wonders why this could be.
Hint, I posted an article about a comparison of how Memphis? (Nashville?) handles these situations compared to MSP.
I tried to find info on how many US citizens were among the roughly 56 who died during the Obama era during deportation operations by ICE. I can't find that anyone has even tried to separate out such victims from the total. In the meantime, pretending it matters when those citizens killed during current operations have been those obstructing justice and as such they are not "victims" of ICE and absolutely not "murder" victims until such time as a court of law (hopefully with conservative judges) rules that the evidence justifies such a ruling.
The details aren't that important. The narrative that this was business as usual during P-BO is simply ignored because the new narrative doesn't have to bear any connection to anything that happened previously.
Remember those "kids in cages" that everyone got all worked up about during Trump 1.0? They weren't bothered at all that both the kids and the cages were holdovers from P-BO.
I get it and don't consider the details important, or wouldn't had I not seen memes comparing the Obama vs Trump deportation being a matter of how many US citizens were killed, as if their criminality isn't to be considered given their citizenship...which is really insane.
Obviously the details are unimportant to those who are interested in something beyond demonizing Trump. In this case the details aren't important in this sub thread because I've dealt with them elsewhere and see no desire to reiterate them here.
The facts are that the cities and counties in the MSP urban core are a significant cause of what we are seeing due to their decision not to work with ICE and to return felon illegal aliens to the streets. The facts are that P-BO alone killed and deported more than Trump, and the progressives stayed silent. The facts are that ICE is cooperating with local LE across the country without the garbage that's happening in MN.
I'd be willing to bet that ICE is smoothly and peacefully taking illegal alien criminals into custody in Louisville as we type. and Dan sits behind his keyboard whining about Trump.
What Dan ignores is that Trump hasn't passed any new laws, or changed the criteria for deportation, he just enforcing the same laws that the last few presidents have. Or in the case of Biden, chosen to ignore.
Joshua Wilkerson Rachel Morin Laken Riley Jocelyn Nungaray Kayla Hamilton Kate Steinle Brandon Mendoza Mollie Tibetts Brianna Kelson Karen Diamond Billy McKellar Zabar McKellar Krishaun McKellar Kason McKellar Nicole Gregory Larisha Thompson Jimmy Friesenhahn Ava Moore Jorge Gonzalez Aleksandre Modebadze Jim McCammon Camillia Williams Mileth Guerra Ilias Louie Mavros Adan Lopez Lorenzo Matias Emanuel Debrina Kawam Grayson Davis Angel Samaniego Evangeline Moreno Sebastian Moreno Fraime Ubaldo Marangely Santiago Tiger Gutierrez Rylan Oncale Taliyah Crochet Melody Waldecker Kaitlyn Weaver Scott Miller Matthew Carney Anilson Gomez Kristie Thibodeaux Lauryn Ni Leonard Shannon Jungwirth Mario Trejo Estrada Jorge Reyes Jungwirth Riordan Powell Melissa Powell Travis Wolfe Catalina Andrade Merced Bailon Ruperto Salgado Jario Sanchez Carmen Zuniga Michael Kunovich Diana Alvarado Julisa Rivera Jose Casarez Sonia Guzman Daniel Laso David Breaux Karim Abou Najm Matteo Garcia Erpharo Gilbert Limber Funez Diane Luckett Maria Rios Maris DiGiovanni Brent Hallett Martin Adame Ned Byrd Sandra Ceja Victor Huerta Terry Aultman Brenda Aultman Erin Simanskis Ruby Garcia George Levin Lizbeth Medina Maria Gonzalez Aiden De Paz Luis Lopez Hallie Helgeson Brady Heiling Ivory Smith Alex AJ Wise Jr Mustaffa Muhammad Nicacio Gonzalez Jon Douglas Ratcliffe Jacques Price Amalia Choc de Pec Estrella Pec Coc Maricela Franco Jeremy Caceras Santiago Jacobo Anjelica Guadalupe Amaya Briceno Aiden Clark Kimberlee Guillory Gloria Palomec Paul Osokin Anya Varfolomeev Jennifer Morton Dania Mejia Dennis Buan David Hang Colby Compton Gretchen Gross Crecensio De La Rosa Corbin Wagner Francisco Cuellar Douglas R Cline Isidro Cortes Karina Torres Moussa Fofana Andi Lynn Blair Cheston Edwards Cindy Goulding Evelyn Falcon Miguel Ruiz Francisco Zamora Victoria Harwell Felicia Ruiz John Anderson Carol Wolff Logan & Jessica Wilson Kara Willingham Jamica Williams Kevin Scott Will Madison Wells Evonne Tuttle Ryan Thompson Brian Terry Nazareth Claure Maria Tambunga Louise Sollwin Julie Smith Jaxon Smith Ronil Singh James Sims Jensen Sheets Mayra Sanchez Christopher Rowe Drew Rosenberg Robert Rosas Donald Rackley Harold Preston Dwayne Polk Christy Pina Oscar Navarro Parker Moore Rhyan Moody Sue Marcum Jeffrey Monroe Carl Molinaro Elizabeth Pena Johanna Pascoe
This is a list of real victims of violence and murder, until you can go after the ones who victimized them with the vehemence you demonstrate about Good and Pretti, I'll remain convinced that these two dead people are just ammunition for you to use for political purposes.
Well that's exactly it, Craig, and always is with the marxist/progressive lefties like Dan. It's about posturing and projecting evil upon ideological opponents. Those like Dan just don't really care about victims. They care about framing Trump as responsible, because...you know...embrace grace. That's what it looks like.
They only care about the "approved" victims, not the ones that are victimized by the policies and candidates they blindly support. Those are just collateral damage on the way to liberal utopia.
To paraphrase Emmanuel, "Never let a good victim's corpse go to waste.". The problem is that most of the "victims" they choose to beatify are not good people at all.
The best information I have found about Pretti, aside from him being an anti-ICE activist who previously tangled with them, the videos show ICE trying to keep him back and yet he continues to interfere so the ICE takes him to the ground. In his back him a gun is noticed and it is quickly removed while an office yells "gun." Split second later the gun goes off on its own (a KNOWN problem with that particular model). So call it over-reacting and not murder. An LEO yells "gun" and a shot rings out and it is assumed Pretti fired a shot and is the reason the cops unloaded on him. Accident due to circumstances but NOT murder.
I agree. We are also seeing evidence that his parents were concerned that he would push things to far, that he had quit his job as a nurse, and that there are some things from his time at the VA that don't support the narrative around Pretti.
Much like Good, this could have been avoided. All that was necessary was for Pretti simply done what his carry classes taught him to do, or to take the advice of the rabble rousers and not engage.
The significant possibility of an accidental discharge during the encounter would only have made things worse.
What isn't talked about much is that the actions of the protesters (whistles, etc) are intended to have a negative effect on the abilities of the officers to process and to increase their stress and disorientation. Likewise, the protests at hotels will affect the officers ability to function due to lack of sleep. It's almost like the "protesters" want to create situations where ICE agents are more likely to respond poorly.
I've tried to make it clear to Dan that his use of inaccurate adjectives to describe these incidents will not be tolerated and will result in his comments being aborted. So far, no charges have even been filed and everyone involved is "innocent until proven guilty" for Dan to presume guilt is simply slander. Which, he engages in much more than you'd think.
Going by analysis by those who's character I don't have justification for questioning, I'm not sure Pretti's piece caused the first gun shot. One vid (with sound) appears as if the first shot was fired by an officer (the one standing behind him). A point was made regarding his positioning and the time between turning to face the scrum and his firing of his gat. He was facing 180 degrees the other way (his attention on another protester) and then turned to face the backside of Pretti and then drew and fired. The time was mere seconds for the entire turn-and-shoot. The chronology of events...when "GUN!" was first shouted, what those right there was seeing or not seeing when it was and to what extent the first shot led to the subsequent barrage...is still being sorted out.
Craig speaks to the actions of the protesters, all intended to complicate the ability of the ICE officers to do their job quickly and effectively and I can't see how this particular scenario can be anticipated exactly, even by those with decades of experience. The grace-embracing anarchist progressives have stepped up their tactics over the last ten to fifteen years, and I'm sure LE is seeing new methods of criminal grace embracing all the time.
My sympathy for those who are killed is proportionate to the degree of responsibility they had for their deaths. While I'm not unsympathetic, and I acknowledge the unnecessary tragedy, I can't ignore the reality that they made choices that led to tragic consequences.
I'm far less sympathetic for their deaths than I am for how corrupted they were by grace-embracing marxist progressives. Were it not for that, they'd still be with us (presumably).
That their deaths have been co opted and used for political gain (and for the benefit of some vile criminals) isn't totally the fault of Good and Pretti. It could be argued that both were "brainwashed" to some degree (given what Good's "wife" said and what Pretti's parents said), yet they had agency and chose to engage in actions that directly led to their deaths. I do have some degree of sympathy for those who get used by these political opportunists as cannon fodder, and because they were convinced that martyrdom for the cause would get them sainthood (I see you St George of the Counterfeit $20). They're convinced that Frey will genuflect at their golden coffin and that they'll be the spark that sets off the revolution. (It's probably not the rational of a thought process, but you know they dug seeing Frey bow before St George)
Anyway, I'll give them the degree of sympathy they deserve, while also keeping their role in their own deaths in mind.
On a slight tangent... I'm not a gun guy. Maybe you boys know.
Aside from the atrocity of an innocent citizen being beaten and killed by IMMIGRATION officers... aside from that, just from a good gun management perspective... standing just feet apart in a scrum of five or more humans rolling around on the ground, opening fire point blank SEEMS like an incredibly juvenile, inept and stupid thing to do. This would not pass the good firearm management test in an NRA class, would it? I have to doubt it seriously. From the little bit of boyscout (or my good ol boy uncles??) training I had in bits and pieces as a young lad, shooting should be done in a controlled manner where you know where your target is. This doesn't seem to be that.
In the midst of a fluid situation with intentional distractions and an armed subject who’s actively resisting, there is no one perfect one size fits all answer.
Fortunately LE and the military are trained to adapt and overcome less than ideal conditions. Because in the real world things aren’t always ideal and as perfect as they seem to an armchair quarterback with 20/20 hindsight. This is why use of force laws aren’t based on what some internet vigilante thinks.
One more example of apples and oranges,
There’s a video around where some non shooters were put in shoot/no shoot simulations and failed miserably every time.
But you, who takes no risks, feel free to second guess those who do.
It takes a split second for things to turn completely around.
There's also the very real possibility of a second concealed weapon. A struggling suspect turns out to be armed and such is now considered a lethal threat and lethal response is justified. I don't know how many bricks, cars, Molotov cocktails, fireworks and iceballs need to be thrown at somebody before Dan cuts them some slack when they respond aggressively against the next attacker. But hey, Dan. Feel free to continue blocking the progressive of a LEO while he's doing his duty. Just make sure someone's taking a video we can see and enjoy afterwards.
I'm not a protest/riot guy, but I'm curious. Is it standard procedure to follow LE around and interfere in their enforcement actions, act out uncontrollable rage, hit or kick inanimate objects, spit on (battery) LE, and arm oneself with a "military grade" weapon and "high capacity" magazines for "peaceful" protesting?
So, Dan asked a question (apparently in good faith) regarding training for LE and the military. I suspect he thought that he had some sort of gotcha situation going with his reference to NRA training (as if the NRA trains LE and the military, or that the NRA (a good old liberal bogeyman) sets training standards). CCW training curricula is set and regulated by the state, not the NRA or anyone else.
In cases of shooting from sub optimal positions this is obviously a high priority for LE and the military due to the circumstances that they find themselves in. There are places where civilians can access some degree of training in these sub optimal shooting techniques, but most carry training focuses on avoiding situations where a gun is necessary, and on mindset. There is some off hand requirement for qualification as well. It's not rocket science or as difficult as Dan seems to think.
That nonsense aside, the VAST majority of incidents where a gun is involved or discharged occur at between 9-21 feet. It's simply not that hard to hit someone from those distances in order to neutralize the threat.
Well, because we don't know WHO the killers/shooters are because this administration is running a literal private secret police group at the president's behest... because they're doing the best to keep their secret police secret...
We don't know WHO these fellers are.
But would you be willing to bet that 1. They were NOT trained on best practices in interacting with civilian populations, protesters, etc (it's really clear just by observation, fyi) 2. They are likely right and far right men who couldn't make it in the police force or military; 3. They are poor white men who perhaps belong to groups like the Proud Boys or the J6 rioters/criminals who are being given a chance to brandish guns publicly and boss around liberals, women and people of color and who RELISH that chance?
Would you be willing to bet against the notion that a disproportionate portion of these ICE agents fit those type of categories?
Better yet, just do what far right and right wing and 2nd Amendment types have always wanted and demand that these ICE agents be clearly identified. All of them. Because giving guns to bullies and boys and telling them their identities will be kept secret is a recipe for disaster.
This notion that you have some God given right to know who these agents were is simply so bizarre as to boggle my mind. The appropriate authorities know who they are and are currently engaging in the protocol for investigating an officer involved shooting. Maybe dial back the lynch mob vibes for a few days.
1. No. 2. No. 3. No.
Your bigotry and racism are showing through loud and clear. I don't recall Jesus encouraging this sort of guilt by assumption and jumping to conclusions without actual evidence. Which is strange given you demands for "objective proof" in others areas, yet you have literally zero "objective proof" here.
I'm not going to indulge your fantasy scenarios because they are simply you allowing your prejudice, hatred, racism, and bigotry to flow.
Again with the lies. Maybe if you'd slow down, drop the lynch mob vibes, allow the process more than a few days to play out, and wait for the people in authority to do their jobs before you spew this nonsense. it'd be a good idea.
MY GOD! If you need any more proof that your pervert felon is abusing his power and creating his own secret police force, the Felon Fascist is SENDING ICE TO ITALY!!!
What in the actual name of an actual God almighty?
1. Did you actually read the article? That a small number of ICE agents will be in Italy as one part of a larger US security presence. That their role will be a support role, and nothing else. Your hysteria isn't a good look.
2. Given your reverence for the BBC, I'm sure that you appreciated their additional video context regarding Pretti's multiple violent and unhinged interactions with ICE before he interfered with them and got shot.
HA!! Dan provides a link which exposes his stupidity! Most of the Italian government people, like the Italian Foreign Minister, for example, crapped on concerns about ICE presence as if he was talking to useful idiots like Dan himself. Only the lefties of Italy had a problem and the article pointed them out. The funniest part was the quote involving "militia that kills", as if Italian LEOs never kill anyone while doing their duty.
With Dan, the stupid never stops any more than the lying does.
What’s even funnier is that Italy is one of the few EU nations trying to avoid cultural suicide via unlimited immigration. The Italian PM seems much more aligned with Trump than much of Europe.
1. ?
ReplyDelete2. Are you suggesting that there has been violence, like molotov cocktails by PROTESTERS in Minneapolis after Alex Pretti was beaten and murdered for helping a woman that wash assaulted by ICE types? Because, you KNOW don't you, that the violence and murders have come from ICE, not the protesters?
3. Or are you comparing throwing snowballs at ICE to the actual violence by ICE?
4. Pretti was a helper, a good person siding with someone who had been shoved down/assaulted to defend them, just like he helped veterans daily in his nursing job.
5. Kirk was a provocateur who made all sorts of accusations and got rich by spreading his false claims and attacks.
You're comparing rotten apples and oranges.
1. Sorry, I can't read your mind and you'd bitch and moan if I tried to figure out what this means.
Delete2. I am stating the absolute fact that there have been more Molotov cocktails thrown in MPLS by those on the left than by those on the right in the past 15 years. I am stating as an absolute fact that MPLS left wing protesters have a history of throwing Molotov cocktails, as well as other deadly projectiles at LE and innocent bystanders.
3. If by "snowballs" you mean actual chunks/bottles of ice... I can't decide if your ignorance of the "anti-ICE" violence in MSP over the past few weeks is intentional or stupidity.
4. As time goes on we are getting a more complete picture of Pretti, and it (as often happens with left wing martyrs) isn't what y'all desperately want it to be. It's strange that a nurse who just wanted to be a "helper" chose to pack a "military grade" gun when he was chasing ICE agents instead of a first aid kit or medical supplies.
5. What in interesting excuse for him being killed, the weeks of death threats against his family, the false and hateful rhetoric used to justify his murder, and your own callous indifference to the harm being perpetrated by your side.
That you choose to slander Kirk, while (once again) beatifying the most recent leftist martyr while bitching about slander is hilarious, although expected.
That you've committed to a narrative before all of the facts and information have come out, is also hilarious and also expected.
Speaking of: By this time, it's clear that Pretti was assaulted, maced and had his gun removed BEFORE the murdered him in cold blood. Are you EVER going to stand against these fascist thugs and their dangerous assault on US citizens?
ReplyDeleteYou choose all the wrong "heroes."
While it may be "clear" to you in your incredibly well educated and expert opinion, I'm not sure that your statement of fact will hold up as more information comes out.
DeleteStrangely enough, it is clear that Pretti had interfered with ICE (a physical altercation) previously, was interfering with ICE agents before he was shot, and that he was much more than an innocent bystander.
Your choice to lie and slander is strange to say the least. As your assumptive claim that I have "chosen" ICE agents as "heroes" cannot be based on anything that I have done or said, I can only assume that you believe that lying about me somehow helps you.
Most of what I said about the Good shooting, applies to this one as well. They were both tragic and could have been avoided. But why pay attention to what I've actually said, when you can make shit up and lie.
I've decided to no longer refer to these deaths as "tragic". "Deserved" is more accurate, though I won't be using that without explanation. But "tragic" should be reserved for those who had nothing to do with bringing about their deaths. Both Good and Pretti don't fall into that category.
DeleteYou do you, but any death which was so easily avoidable could reasonably be referred to as tragic. That they played a starring role in the events that led to the tragedies is part and parcel of the whole story.
Delete--A soldier running into battle can result in his death. That's tragic.
Delete--The cops who ran into the WTC before the fell on and crushed them. That's tragic.
--Lawbreakers running to break laws and die in the process? Karma. Not tragic.
Given Dan's choice to ignore one of the few rule of conduct I have here and after multiple examples of me showing grace to him when he doesn't, his recent comment will be aborted.
ReplyDeleteAfter living through the Summer of Love, the siege of the 2nd precinct, and many other instances of violence directed at both LE and innocent bystanders, I can only imagine the intentional blindness that you must contend with. That you choose to ignore the fact that ICE deported and killed significantly more during the P-BO reign alone, to focus on these two tragic, and preventable deaths, shows your partisan hackery. That you choose to ignore the left wing violence of the past few weeks in MSP, ditto. That you ignore the role played by city, county, and state government officials in the situation, ditto. Finally, MSP is a small percentage of the criminal illegal aliens that have been detained and deported over the last year, yet in no other metro area do we see this kind of violence and interference. One wonders why this could be.
ReplyDeleteHint, I posted an article about a comparison of how Memphis? (Nashville?) handles these situations compared to MSP.
I tried to find info on how many US citizens were among the roughly 56 who died during the Obama era during deportation operations by ICE. I can't find that anyone has even tried to separate out such victims from the total. In the meantime, pretending it matters when those citizens killed during current operations have been those obstructing justice and as such they are not "victims" of ICE and absolutely not "murder" victims until such time as a court of law (hopefully with conservative judges) rules that the evidence justifies such a ruling.
DeleteThe details aren't that important. The narrative that this was business as usual during P-BO is simply ignored because the new narrative doesn't have to bear any connection to anything that happened previously.
DeleteRemember those "kids in cages" that everyone got all worked up about during Trump 1.0? They weren't bothered at all that both the kids and the cages were holdovers from P-BO.
I get it and don't consider the details important, or wouldn't had I not seen memes comparing the Obama vs Trump deportation being a matter of how many US citizens were killed, as if their criminality isn't to be considered given their citizenship...which is really insane.
DeleteObviously the details are unimportant to those who are interested in something beyond demonizing Trump. In this case the details aren't important in this sub thread because I've dealt with them elsewhere and see no desire to reiterate them here.
DeleteThe facts are that the cities and counties in the MSP urban core are a significant cause of what we are seeing due to their decision not to work with ICE and to return felon illegal aliens to the streets. The facts are that P-BO alone killed and deported more than Trump, and the progressives stayed silent. The facts are that ICE is cooperating with local LE across the country without the garbage that's happening in MN.
I'd be willing to bet that ICE is smoothly and peacefully taking illegal alien criminals into custody in Louisville as we type. and Dan sits behind his keyboard whining about Trump.
What Dan ignores is that Trump hasn't passed any new laws, or changed the criteria for deportation, he just enforcing the same laws that the last few presidents have. Or in the case of Biden, chosen to ignore.
Joshua Wilkerson
ReplyDeleteRachel Morin
Laken Riley
Jocelyn Nungaray
Kayla Hamilton
Kate Steinle
Brandon Mendoza
Mollie Tibetts
Brianna Kelson
Karen Diamond
Billy McKellar
Zabar McKellar
Krishaun McKellar
Kason McKellar
Nicole Gregory
Larisha Thompson
Jimmy Friesenhahn
Ava Moore
Jorge Gonzalez
Aleksandre Modebadze
Jim McCammon
Camillia Williams
Mileth Guerra
Ilias Louie Mavros
Adan Lopez Lorenzo
Matias Emanuel
Debrina Kawam
Grayson Davis
Angel Samaniego
Evangeline Moreno
Sebastian Moreno
Fraime Ubaldo
Marangely Santiago
Tiger Gutierrez
Rylan Oncale
Taliyah Crochet
Melody Waldecker
Kaitlyn Weaver
Scott Miller
Matthew Carney
Anilson Gomez
Kristie Thibodeaux
Lauryn Ni Leonard
Shannon Jungwirth
Mario Trejo Estrada
Jorge Reyes Jungwirth
Riordan Powell
Melissa Powell
Travis Wolfe
Catalina Andrade
Merced Bailon
Ruperto Salgado
Jario Sanchez
Carmen Zuniga
Michael Kunovich
Diana Alvarado
Julisa Rivera
Jose Casarez
Sonia Guzman
Daniel Laso
David Breaux
Karim Abou Najm
Matteo Garcia
Erpharo Gilbert
Limber Funez
Diane Luckett
Maria Rios
Maris DiGiovanni
Brent Hallett
Martin Adame
Ned Byrd
Sandra Ceja
Victor Huerta
Terry Aultman
Brenda Aultman
Erin Simanskis
Ruby Garcia
George Levin
Lizbeth Medina
Maria Gonzalez
Aiden De Paz
Luis Lopez
Hallie Helgeson
Brady Heiling
Ivory Smith
Alex AJ Wise Jr
Mustaffa Muhammad
Nicacio Gonzalez
Jon Douglas Ratcliffe
Jacques Price
Amalia Choc de Pec
Estrella Pec Coc
Maricela Franco
Jeremy Caceras
Santiago Jacobo
Anjelica Guadalupe
Amaya Briceno
Aiden Clark
Kimberlee Guillory
Gloria Palomec
Paul Osokin
Anya Varfolomeev
Jennifer Morton
Dania Mejia
Dennis Buan
David Hang
Colby Compton
Gretchen Gross
Crecensio De La Rosa
Corbin Wagner
Francisco Cuellar
Douglas R Cline
Isidro Cortes
Karina Torres
Moussa Fofana
Andi Lynn Blair
Cheston Edwards
Cindy Goulding
Evelyn Falcon
Miguel Ruiz
Francisco Zamora
Victoria Harwell
Felicia Ruiz
John Anderson
Carol Wolff
Logan & Jessica Wilson
Kara Willingham
Jamica Williams
Kevin Scott Will
Madison Wells
Evonne Tuttle
Ryan Thompson
Brian Terry
Nazareth Claure
Maria Tambunga
Louise Sollwin
Julie Smith
Jaxon Smith
Ronil Singh
James Sims
Jensen Sheets
Mayra Sanchez
Christopher Rowe
Drew Rosenberg
Robert Rosas
Donald Rackley
Harold Preston
Dwayne Polk
Christy Pina
Oscar Navarro
Parker Moore
Rhyan Moody
Sue Marcum
Jeffrey Monroe
Carl Molinaro
Elizabeth Pena
Johanna Pascoe
This is a list of real victims of violence and murder, until you can go after the ones who victimized them with the vehemence you demonstrate about Good and Pretti, I'll remain convinced that these two dead people are just ammunition for you to use for political purposes.
Well that's exactly it, Craig, and always is with the marxist/progressive lefties like Dan. It's about posturing and projecting evil upon ideological opponents. Those like Dan just don't really care about victims. They care about framing Trump as responsible, because...you know...embrace grace. That's what it looks like.
DeleteThey only care about the "approved" victims, not the ones that are victimized by the policies and candidates they blindly support. Those are just collateral damage on the way to liberal utopia.
DeleteNaw...the "approved" victims are simply those they exploit. They don't actually care about them.
DeleteTo paraphrase Emmanuel, "Never let a good victim's corpse go to waste.". The problem is that most of the "victims" they choose to beatify are not good people at all.
DeleteThe best information I have found about Pretti, aside from him being an anti-ICE activist who previously tangled with them, the videos show ICE trying to keep him back and yet he continues to interfere so the ICE takes him to the ground. In his back him a gun is noticed and it is quickly removed while an office yells "gun." Split second later the gun goes off on its own (a KNOWN problem with that particular model). So call it over-reacting and not murder. An LEO yells "gun" and a shot rings out and it is assumed Pretti fired a shot and is the reason the cops unloaded on him. Accident due to circumstances but NOT murder.
ReplyDeleteI agree. We are also seeing evidence that his parents were concerned that he would push things to far, that he had quit his job as a nurse, and that there are some things from his time at the VA that don't support the narrative around Pretti.
DeleteMuch like Good, this could have been avoided. All that was necessary was for Pretti simply done what his carry classes taught him to do, or to take the advice of the rabble rousers and not engage.
The significant possibility of an accidental discharge during the encounter would only have made things worse.
What isn't talked about much is that the actions of the protesters (whistles, etc) are intended to have a negative effect on the abilities of the officers to process and to increase their stress and disorientation. Likewise, the protests at hotels will affect the officers ability to function due to lack of sleep. It's almost like the "protesters" want to create situations where ICE agents are more likely to respond poorly.
I've tried to make it clear to Dan that his use of inaccurate adjectives to describe these incidents will not be tolerated and will result in his comments being aborted. So far, no charges have even been filed and everyone involved is "innocent until proven guilty" for Dan to presume guilt is simply slander. Which, he engages in much more than you'd think.
DeleteGoing by analysis by those who's character I don't have justification for questioning, I'm not sure Pretti's piece caused the first gun shot. One vid (with sound) appears as if the first shot was fired by an officer (the one standing behind him). A point was made regarding his positioning and the time between turning to face the scrum and his firing of his gat. He was facing 180 degrees the other way (his attention on another protester) and then turned to face the backside of Pretti and then drew and fired. The time was mere seconds for the entire turn-and-shoot. The chronology of events...when "GUN!" was first shouted, what those right there was seeing or not seeing when it was and to what extent the first shot led to the subsequent barrage...is still being sorted out.
DeleteCraig speaks to the actions of the protesters, all intended to complicate the ability of the ICE officers to do their job quickly and effectively and I can't see how this particular scenario can be anticipated exactly, even by those with decades of experience. The grace-embracing anarchist progressives have stepped up their tactics over the last ten to fifteen years, and I'm sure LE is seeing new methods of criminal grace embracing all the time.
A simple MPD buffer zone around ICE enforcement actions would have likely prevented both of these shootings.
DeleteYet the disorientation actions of the protesters should absolutely be mitigating factors when it comes to any legal action against the agents.
My sympathy for those who are killed is proportionate to the degree of responsibility they had for their deaths. While I'm not unsympathetic, and I acknowledge the unnecessary tragedy, I can't ignore the reality that they made choices that led to tragic consequences.
ReplyDeleteI'm far less sympathetic for their deaths than I am for how corrupted they were by grace-embracing marxist progressives. Were it not for that, they'd still be with us (presumably).
DeleteThat their deaths have been co opted and used for political gain (and for the benefit of some vile criminals) isn't totally the fault of Good and Pretti. It could be argued that both were "brainwashed" to some degree (given what Good's "wife" said and what Pretti's parents said), yet they had agency and chose to engage in actions that directly led to their deaths. I do have some degree of sympathy for those who get used by these political opportunists as cannon fodder, and because they were convinced that martyrdom for the cause would get them sainthood (I see you St George of the Counterfeit $20). They're convinced that Frey will genuflect at their golden coffin and that they'll be the spark that sets off the revolution. (It's probably not the rational of a thought process, but you know they dug seeing Frey bow before St George)
DeleteAnyway, I'll give them the degree of sympathy they deserve, while also keeping their role in their own deaths in mind.
On a slight tangent... I'm not a gun guy. Maybe you boys know.
ReplyDeleteAside from the atrocity of an innocent citizen being beaten and killed by IMMIGRATION officers... aside from that, just from a good gun management perspective... standing just feet apart in a scrum of five or more humans rolling around on the ground, opening fire point blank SEEMS like an incredibly juvenile, inept and stupid thing to do. This would not pass the good firearm management test in an NRA class, would it? I have to doubt it seriously. From the little bit of boyscout (or my good ol boy uncles??) training I had in bits and pieces as a young lad, shooting should be done in a controlled manner where you know where your target is. This doesn't seem to be that.
I genuinely want to know.
In the midst of a fluid situation with intentional distractions and an armed subject who’s actively resisting, there is no one perfect one size fits all answer.
DeleteFortunately LE and the military are trained to adapt and overcome less than ideal conditions. Because in the real world things aren’t always ideal and as perfect as they seem to an armchair quarterback with 20/20 hindsight. This is why use of force laws aren’t based on what some internet vigilante thinks.
One more example of apples and oranges,
There’s a video around where some non shooters were put in shoot/no shoot simulations and failed miserably every time.
But you, who takes no risks, feel free to second guess those who do.
It takes a split second for things to turn completely around.
There's also the very real possibility of a second concealed weapon. A struggling suspect turns out to be armed and such is now considered a lethal threat and lethal response is justified. I don't know how many bricks, cars, Molotov cocktails, fireworks and iceballs need to be thrown at somebody before Dan cuts them some slack when they respond aggressively against the next attacker. But hey, Dan. Feel free to continue blocking the progressive of a LEO while he's doing his duty. Just make sure someone's taking a video we can see and enjoy afterwards.
DeleteI'm not a protest/riot guy, but I'm curious. Is it standard procedure to follow LE around and interfere in their enforcement actions, act out uncontrollable rage, hit or kick inanimate objects, spit on (battery) LE, and arm oneself with a "military grade" weapon and "high capacity" magazines for "peaceful" protesting?
DeleteSo, Dan asked a question (apparently in good faith) regarding training for LE and the military. I suspect he thought that he had some sort of gotcha situation going with his reference to NRA training (as if the NRA trains LE and the military, or that the NRA (a good old liberal bogeyman) sets training standards). CCW training curricula is set and regulated by the state, not the NRA or anyone else.
DeleteIn cases of shooting from sub optimal positions this is obviously a high priority for LE and the military due to the circumstances that they find themselves in. There are places where civilians can access some degree of training in these sub optimal shooting techniques, but most carry training focuses on avoiding situations where a gun is necessary, and on mindset. There is some off hand requirement for qualification as well. It's not rocket science or as difficult as Dan seems to think.
That nonsense aside, the VAST majority of incidents where a gun is involved or discharged occur at between 9-21 feet. It's simply not that hard to hit someone from those distances in order to neutralize the threat.
Well, because we don't know WHO the killers/shooters are
ReplyDeletebecause this administration is running a literal private secret police group at the president's behest...
because they're doing the best to keep their secret police secret...
We don't know WHO these fellers are.
But would you be willing to bet that
1. They were NOT trained on best practices in interacting with civilian populations, protesters, etc (it's really clear just by observation, fyi)
2. They are likely right and far right men who couldn't make it in the police force or military;
3. They are poor white men who perhaps belong to groups like the Proud Boys or the J6 rioters/criminals who are being given a chance to brandish guns publicly and boss around liberals, women and people of color and who RELISH that chance?
Would you be willing to bet against the notion that a disproportionate portion of these ICE agents fit those type of categories?
Better yet, just do what far right and right wing and 2nd Amendment types have always wanted and demand that these ICE agents be clearly identified. All of them. Because giving guns to bullies and boys and telling them their identities will be kept secret is a recipe for disaster.
This notion that you have some God given right to know who these agents were is simply so bizarre as to boggle my mind. The appropriate authorities know who they are and are currently engaging in the protocol for investigating an officer involved shooting. Maybe dial back the lynch mob vibes for a few days.
Delete1. No.
2. No.
3. No.
Your bigotry and racism are showing through loud and clear. I don't recall Jesus encouraging this sort of guilt by assumption and jumping to conclusions without actual evidence. Which is strange given you demands for "objective proof" in others areas, yet you have literally zero "objective proof" here.
I'm not going to indulge your fantasy scenarios because they are simply you allowing your prejudice, hatred, racism, and bigotry to flow.
Again with the lies. Maybe if you'd slow down, drop the lynch mob vibes, allow the process more than a few days to play out, and wait for the people in authority to do their jobs before you spew this nonsense. it'd be a good idea.
MY GOD! If you need any more proof that your pervert felon is abusing his power and creating his own secret police force, the Felon Fascist is SENDING ICE TO ITALY!!!
ReplyDeleteWhat in the actual name of an actual God almighty?
WHEN WILL YOU OPEN YOUR DAMNED EYES?
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c5y29xzjdzvo
1. Did you actually read the article? That a small number of ICE agents will be in Italy as one part of a larger US security presence. That their role will be a support role, and nothing else. Your hysteria isn't a good look.
Delete2. Given your reverence for the BBC, I'm sure that you appreciated their additional video context regarding Pretti's multiple violent and unhinged interactions with ICE before he interfered with them and got shot.
HA!! Dan provides a link which exposes his stupidity! Most of the Italian government people, like the Italian Foreign Minister, for example, crapped on concerns about ICE presence as if he was talking to useful idiots like Dan himself. Only the lefties of Italy had a problem and the article pointed them out. The funniest part was the quote involving "militia that kills", as if Italian LEOs never kill anyone while doing their duty.
DeleteWith Dan, the stupid never stops any more than the lying does.
What’s even funnier is that Italy is one of the few EU nations trying to avoid cultural suicide via unlimited immigration. The Italian PM seems much more aligned with Trump than much of Europe.
DeleteOne more example of Dan choosing not to follow one of three simple rules and getting his comment aborted. The lies weren't worth responding to.
ReplyDelete