I was walking out of the store today and passed a Muslim mother and daughter. Both had their heads covered, and mom was wearing the whole outfit. Because modesty is so very important for Muslim men to enforce on their wives and daughters.
But, the daughter (probably 12-14), was wearing a skin tight, virtually transparent shirt. High neckline, long sleeves, yet leaving little to the imagination.
Now my point here is not about ogling a young girl, because I wasn’t. It was impossible not to notice before looking away.
My point is that this is what might be the biggest reason why Islam loses traction in the US. American culture, how many Muslim girls would rather dress like every other tween in the country rather than wear the modesty costume? If she can find a loophole in the modesty culture and meet the letter of the law, while violating the spirit of the law, where does that lead?
Can Muslim parents convince their daughters to hide under a blanket, while their sons get to wear whatever trendy clothes they want?
There’s an element of tongue in cheek in this post, but there’s a bit of seriousness as well. Can US culture be as corrosive to Muslims as it can be to anyone else?
Put another way, "perhaps Muslims in America and other places are not as bad as I fear because I really, really, really, really am afraid of them and think they're really, really, really evil and going to eat our puppies and our kittens."
ReplyDeleteOne of the great things and the bad things about the U.S. is that whole marketplace of ideas:. The best or most appealing ideas can win out even against religious bigotry and even against common sense.
Dan
Your obsession with putting words in my mouth or making shit up and pretending I said/meant it is getting old.
DeleteI'm not at all trying to put words into your mouth. I'm reading what you've written, the many posts about the threats of Islam.
ReplyDeleteYou mean, after ALL your incessant complaints and tirades against Muslims and Muslims moving into U.S. cities and European nations and what Muslims are doing in other nations and the horrors of Islam, are you saying that you DON'T find them dangerous and a threat and something to be feared?
If so that's good to hear. Very progressive of you. Believers in the religion of Islam are like believers in any other religion. Some are more fundamentalist and actually dangerous to notions of human rights and grace and liberty while others are more embracing of all that.
We agree then? We agree, then?
If so good, for you. But you'll have to watch out. Pretty soon Glenn and Marshall will be calling you a radical, a liberal!
Dan
I guess reading for understanding isn’t something you do, just something you demand of others.
DeleteI am suggesting that the allure of US “culture” for teenage girls might prove to be more attractive than being forced to wear the full monty.
If given the opportunity to wear immodest and revealing clothing like your peers or being forced into being covered from head to toe, it wouldn’t shock me if some Muslim girls chose flaunting.
Of course that requires rebelling against a culture that marries off 9 year olds, endorses polygamy, beating your women, rape, and FGM so maybe it’s asking a bit much to put that all on teenage girls.
Your obsession with forcing agreement where none exists seems more like your obsession with controlling than actual agreement.
Noting that one Muslim girl was pushing the boundaries of modesty is hardly a trend.
Dan's stupidly, intentionally ignorantly supporting Islam only demonstrates how much he hates truth. Islam has proven throughout history to be a danger to every culture invades and conquers and here again Dan is defending them.
ReplyDeleteWell, the problem is that Dan doesn't really know jack shit about much of anything. He's a total effeminate lefty who operates completely on feelings rather than facts. To those who oppose them, the feelings are not exactly what would be what the words "embrace grace" would be likely to conjure in the minds of honest and objective people of character. He loves what he loves and hate what he doesn't and the reasons for either are based on whimsy and false piety.
DeleteYou would think that the wholesale support of anything would mean that one had put a significant amount of time and effort into studying that which is being supported. Yet Dan clearly doesn't seem to know much about Islam.
DeleteCraig...
ReplyDeleteyour obsession with forcing agreement where none exists seems more like your obsession with controlling than actual agreement.
I'm asking for clarification from you. On the one hand, you regular post fearmongering stories and quotes suggesting that Muslims in the US are something to be afraid of and push back against. Just as you can see Glenn doing - "they are a bunch of lying zealots seeking to destroy us all!!" kind of vibe.
BUT when I noted that you might have been saying that Muslims are a group to be feared, you push back that I'm not understanding you. SO, I sought clarification. "OH, you DON'T find Muslims to be something to be worried about, at least in the US..." And now, you're pushing back against that.
Communication doesn't have to be this difficult. Read for understanding, men.
Just to be sure you DO understand, the desire to deny further immigration by muslims, as well as the desire to see a great deal of them deported from this country, is due to the FACT that those from muslim majority Arab and African countries have been especially resistant to assimilation, and by percentage, guilty of violent crimes against our own people. I won't argue as to any claims regarding "nice muslims" or "peace-loving muslims" or the like. The issue is how our government should weigh the risks of such permission against the probability of harm to its people, as is its duty. It is too bad the better of their lot will suffer because of the radical and criminal behaviors of too great a percentage of them.
DeleteTo suggest that we have nothing to fear from muslims is nonsensical, and while some muslims from, say Bosnia, might not be particularly dangerous when compared to, say, Somalia or Pakistan, does not mitigate the threat nor necessitate that every nation of muslims should be treated equally dangerous. But as the tenets of their ideology alone are anathema to the best interests of our culture and its people, there is absolutely no moral issue with such denial of entry, and no "progressive" plea for compassion...as if the concern is somehow unreasonable...is itself either reasonable, intelligent or moral.
Yes, I do regularly post items about the harm that Muslyim immigrants are causing and their refusal to assimilate across Western countries. Personally, I think that 250,000 rapes of non Muslim women, girls and boys in the UK alone is horrific. That the perpetrators (and the perpetrators of similar crimes in the US) are getting off with light or no punishment is a travesty. Muslim clerics, and officials justifying the rapes, and other vile behavior, is likewise a travesty. The Muslim (Quranic) imperative to spread Islam through conquest, using threats and lies, is a concern.
DeleteI'm not so much afraid of Islam as I am afraid that folx like you will be complicit in allowing Islam to do in the US what is being done in Europe. I'm concerned that you choose to ignore the fact that there is hardly a single Muslim majority/Sharia ruled country on earth that was not conquered and where genocide/ethnic cleansing was not employed. I am concerned that folx like you are so committed to inclusion that you make excuses and enable a culture that runs counter to so many things that you claim to hold dear.
Yet, and I've said this for years, US popular culture is seductive. Teen girls might very well find the allure of wearing revealing clothing (on not being covered by a blanket) irresistible. Brand name clothing might well be more attractive than the strict dress code of ones home country or culture. Maybe forced marriage at 9 isn't appealing. I can allow for the possibility that US popular culture might erode the devoutness of the next generations of Muslim children. I can also allow for the reality that their parents will very likely punish them incredibly harshly for not obeying.
It is completely reasonable to expect immigrants to put the US and allegiance to the US over any previous allegiance to another country. Too bad Omar and other elected officials choose not to do so.
Dan's inability to read for understanding is becoming undeniable. His inability to understand that this one post of my opinions about the corrosiveness of secular US popular culture and how that corrosiveness might effect Muslims as it has Jews and Christians does not mitigate the reality of how Muslim immigration has negatively impacted the US and Europe.
Marshal falsely claimed, with no support (because it's false)...
ReplyDelete"due to the FACT that those from muslim majority Arab and African countries have been especially resistant to assimilation, and by percentage, guilty of violent crimes against our own people."
Facts? Prove it. Bigoted distaste for a group of people does not make it a fact. You understand this, right?
I can find NO data that supports either claim and indeed the data fine refutes those claims.
https://www.cato.org/blog/muslim-immigrants-assimilate-even-more-polls-muslims-indicate
The data I've found shows that Muslims are significantly less likely to support any violence against citizens in war, whereas you boys are all okay with it. You're accepted as an acceptable risk and reality of fighting wars. Muslims are more progressive than you on that. As that Cato Institute shows, while they are not as progressive as Americans on civil rights for LGBTQ folks, they are more progressive than evangelical types like y'all.
As always, merely stating something does not make it a fact. Merely repeating what other bigots say does not make it a fact. Gentlemen, be better.
Dan.
"Muslims are significantly less likely to support any violence against citizens in war,"
DeleteWell, if you simply ignore virtually the entirety of Muslim history I guess you could maybe make this claim with a straight face. Now, if only we had a recent example of how Muslims reacted to "violence against citizens" that we could consider, but alas nothing except the aftermath of 10/7, the fact that Muslims pay the families of "martyrs", the whole human shields thing, the religious and cultural defenses for rape, but unfortunately that's just not data.
"they are more progressive than evangelical types like y'all."
What insanity is this? We literally have news coverage of a cruise ship full of gays floating around the Med being refused entry into MULTIPLE Muslim countries, death penalty for gays, death penalty for leaving Islam, cousin marriage, forced marriage, child marriage (as young as 9), and literal genocide/ethnic cleansing. Yeah, Muslims are progressive just like you.
"As always, merely stating something does not make it a fact."
If you truly believed this, then you wouldn't do it.
Cato, being libertarian, favors a more open borders, let 'em all in philosophy. It taints their "research" regarding immigrant groups. Yet still, in reading your link, we're still left with a seriously large percentage of muslims who remain muslim in the worst sense of the word. The percentage of "ex-muslims" can't overcome the threat of that reality, and our government is tasked with protecting the people of this nation, not to appease the migratory desires of any foreign people. Atop that, it should never be forgotten that lying to non-muslims is part and parcel of the "faith", so the accuracy of the Cato research results is suspect.
DeleteBeing "more progressive than evangelical types like y'all" is not at all a plus.
DeleteCraig...
ReplyDelete"I can allow for the possibility that US popular culture might erode the devoutness of the next generations of Muslim children."
Or, and follow me here, maybe it's just that we have some great ideals and they're buying into them. Ideals like children should not be forced to marry and that homosexuals should have human rights and not be harassed. Ideals like women should get to vote and make their own decisions, unlike Pete Hegseth's pastor's plan. I'll take every Muslim that I know over Pete Hegseth's bigoted idiot pastor, an actual self-confessed Christian nationalist.
If you're fearful of Muslims writ large, are you also fearful of Hegseth's pastor, and, by extension, Hegseth for including him in Defense Department events and normalizing his sort of fascism?
Dan
If, as in the example I cited, a teen aged girl wearing a see through shirt is a "great ideal", you may have a point.
DeleteHowever, because you choose to not read for understanding, you make stupid statements like this.
"Ideals like children should not be forced to marry and that homosexuals should have human rights and not be harassed. Ideals like women should get to vote and make their own decisions, "
Yet the denial of those very ideals are hallmarks of virtually every Muslim majority country on earth, and inform the behavior of large numbers of Muslim immigrants to Western countries. Moreover, the "Progressive Muslims" or "Moderate Muslims" you like to refer to are pretty content to stay silent (and alive) while other Muslims actually do what some fringe "pastor" claims he wants to do.
I do appreciate it when you demonstrate my point that you are more obsessed with things that might, theoretically, possibly, happen sometime in the future than with things that have been happening for years.
The difference between my concern about Muslims and some fringe "pastor" is that there are roughly 2 billion Muslims compared to the tiny number of followers of this "pastor". The fact that there are 57 Muslim countries, most of which adhere to Sharia and have militarizes, money, and and actively engaged in furthering the spread of Islam. The fact that there are millions of Muslims who are part of organized terrorist groups engaged in genocide, ethnic cleansing, conquest, slavery, and the like is another reason why I am more concerned about Muslims. Imposition of Sharia law in Western countries, cousin marriage, forced marriage, justifying rape on a massive scale, suborning national legal/justice systems through violence and threats of violence (No go zones). There are plenty of reasons to be more concerned about billions of Muslims than about hundreds of idiots.
Which is not to say that I support Hegseth's pastor and have no concerns about him. Unlike you, I have bandwidth to be concerned with both and to balance the relative threats.
I've looked a bit into this Doug Wilson dude who has Dan's panties in a twist. The left-wing propagandists who tell Dan what to think have certainly portrayed him in the worst light possible. While he's not at all my cup of tea (given what I've found thus far), here's a few things I've found:
Delete1. While I haven't found a quote of his referring to himself as a "White Christian Nationalist", it's pretty clear he is indeed white. Aside from that being descriptive, in his case it doesn't seem to imply racial supremacy, regardless of how moistened Dan's girly bits get to believe that about the guy. And as to just a Christian Nationalist, I've found no quote of him claiming to be one. Rather, I saw a quote (said with a laugh) I'll paraphrase here: "I can accept that label given worse things people have called me."
He seems definitely a conservative Christian (rather than a pretend Christian like Dan) who loves his country and believes it should be the Christian nation the founders envisioned. He also seems less than inclined to be political and insists his relationship with our wonderful Secretary of War is intended to be pastoral, not about policy. Yet, he does prefer that our leaders be Christian, and I agree and vote likewise. He doesn't see Trump as a good or strong Christian despite supporting his presidency, because, why wouldn't an intelligent person do the same? I don't recall anything suggesting he wants a religious litmus test for elected officials, but that's not the same as having one of our own, which I do. Like me, he prefers LGBTQ people not be in positions of power, either as president, legislator or serving on the courts. He's not pleased with Trump appointed Scott Bessent...and I'd prefer the guy wasn't a perv...but I think he's doing a great job and it's an advisory position, not the last word on policy. That's fine, and when a Rick Grennell states the GOP should cast out those who oppose SSM, such should be told to shut up and stay in their lanes. And like all real Christians, Wilson hopes to see Obergefell reversed.
He also wants to see abortion abolished/outlawed, but one doesn't need to be a "Christian Nationalist" to agree. One need only be a decent person of character to criminalize infanticide. That's what a truly civilized culture would and should do.
2. Women voters. The Dans...uh...leftists scream that he wants to take away "a woman's right to vote"!!!!!!. The reality is that, as is the case in his church, he favors votes restricted to heads of households. If a woman is the head of her household, she gets to vote. A single female who lives alone is the head of her household and thus she gets to vote. But lefties lie, so they say he's misogynist. Everything else I've read so far regarding his view of the sexes suggests an understanding of a respect for gender roles...sort of what Paul preaches.
3. Slavery. The progressives have a stick up their butts about his position on slavery. All I've seen thus far is that he made a claim...which isn't untrue...that not all slaves were treated the same way. He opposes slavery, but acknowledges that while some were brutalized, others were not. We know this is true by virtue of the fact that once freed, some stayed on the plantations where they were enslaved. Had these slaves been victims of all the horrors which excite the left (in their liberation theology where oppression and marginalization and class struggle is all the rage), they would not remain on the plantation after being freed of their shackles.
That's what I've found thus far. Some seems a tad extreme for sure. But overall, I'd have no problem living under a Wilson regime than any muslim sharia or its variations.
Dan just gets more stupid/ignorant about Islam by the hour. Hey DAN--try studying some history and what is going on all over the world where Islam is in control or in the process of taking of. Islam is the enemy of the world and any study of history is the proof, FOOL!
ReplyDeleteIt’s not like Islam doesn’t have a centuries long track record of conquest, slavery, genocide, ethnic cleansing, weaponized rape, oppression of women and gays, and using young boys for sexual gratification. But magically they’re going to renounce what the Quran teaches and assimilate into the very Western culture they’ve been trying to wipe out for centuries.
DeleteThanks to King Jan for stopping Islam by breaking the siege of Vienna.
DeleteThis is what Dan likes to deny, while fools continue to vote Muslims into politics office.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.danielgreenfield.org/p/2-million-muslims-in-america-support
But white Christian nationalists, dude!
Delete