https://original.newsbreak.com/@choeshow-1601553/3321634962967
This isn't the first incident between Muslim students and non Muslim students at a Twin Cities area high school.
But there's nothing to see here, move along.
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And yet we keep letting these people come to the USA.
Given my experience with the Twin Cities Muslim community, I'd say the the majority of Muslims in high school were either born here or arrived when they were small children. I wonder how much of this is the culture around their families or communities, as opposed to American youth culture in general. I've spent too much time with too many Somali families to broad brush them, and I'm not willing to go as far as you seem to. Having said that, we don't see this with Ethiopians, Hmong, Karen or any of the other recent immigrant groups.
The best of the best.
Regardless of who and how many, it still is impacted by allowing different cultures to mix where mixing will likely result in such displays. We see this with different cultures of Americans, so why would it be any less likely with different cultures imported.
Some may whine about xenophobia. Let them. The only solution begins with stemming the flow of more inbound foreigners. Sadly, I believe that means the legal ones, too, until we can sort it all out. The best we can say is that inward migration is adding to a seriously deteriorating social problem. We don't have to let that continue and shouldn't...until we can sort it all out. Then we can resume it responsibly, so long as there is not Democrat input, since they're the morons who are most complicit in the breakdown of our society and its culture.
To some extent, there will always be fights in schools. It's what kids do and part of that is actually what growing up includes. But it's exacerbated by stupid leftist policies.
It's Muslims I'm speaking about, of which Somalis are just a part.
I am aware that there are Muslims from countries other than Somalia. However, the vast majority of Muslims here are Somali, and are not engaged in this sort of violence.
It's obviously a bigger conversation, but the many Somali families I've known have had "family values" that would make Jerry Falwell blush. Their kids were well behaved, they valued education, and prioritized the family. My concern is whether or not following generations would continue this or whether they would be consumed by US "hood" culture. So far, the jury is still out, but I would love to be able to study than and to study how African immigrants are regarded by African Americans. If I was an African American, I'd probably be pissed that these immigrants were more economically successful than I was.
Art,
I do agree that the recent flood of unmonitered immigration and the devaluing of the terms "Asylum, and refugee" do require the US to put a temporary halt to almost all immigration until we get a handle on it.
Obviously assimilation will play a big role in this as well. To the extent that the immigrants who are here legally can assimilate, which carries some inherent conflicts for Muslims, it'll be hard to tell. My concern is that those who are not here through legal channels will be less likely to assimilate and will exacerbate the situation.
Obviously fights in school are a thing, but the recent surge in girls engaging in violence and the two with some ties it Muslims are definitely something different.
Yet, after listening to a friend describe how he barely escaped because of a fatwa on him for trying to share The Gospel, I'm hesitant to shut the door entirely.
Well there are some Somalis who are Christian, but those who are Muslim will be, if not already, violent. It is the teaching of Islam.
And there is no such thing as "African American" and hasn't been forever. That's like calling me an English American because my first American progenitors came here in 1639. We are all AMERICAN and people need to quit using that stupid "African American" term.
Shutting the door entirely is a necessary starting point. And we have to be firm about it before considering any exceptions. The most salient and essential aspect of it is to return to the actual idea behind proper immigration policy is that our first consideration is how any potential immigrant might help or harm us, the people of the United States. Their problems, their reasons for coming are and must always be regarded as secondary to that absolute.
To consider any exceptions must include a minimum standard of vetting so that we can have as complete and understanding of who and what the person is. No one gets in otherwise and once in must be available to scrutiny and monitoring with conditions as regards their behavior. Good people won't balk if their intention is to become American. If their intention is to make dough, they can come on a work visa which requires something akin to parole, where they must maintain a connection with an office or officer who will keep track of them.
We lived next door to a muslim family for several years. But they were from Bosnia and I don't know how they compare to muslims from the middle east or Africa. Though we got along quite well, there was an overt attempt to assimilate on their part, preferring to speak to their small children in English, while their visiting relatives from Bosnia didn't speak English at all. I would still prefer our policies to be extra discerning with regard to muslims in general, and it's too bad for those who with similar family values. They have only their own to blame, not us.
Glenn,
For the most part, based on the Somalis who've come here, it's pretty safe to assume that Somali almost always equals Muslim, while Ethiopian almost always equals Christian. I understand that Islam does condone violence in the spreading of their faith, I kind of doubt that high school girls are fighting to spread Islam through their school.
I use the term African American in this one specific context because I haven't found a better descriptor, that is as concise. I'm drawing a distinction between Americans of African heritage at some point in the past as opposed to the current crop of African immigrants from East Africa. I agree that as a general term African American is not helpful, but in this one case I find it to be useful in making the distinction.
The reason why I find this important is that the culture of many of the African Americans that live in the "hood" is significantly different from the culture of the African immigrants. Most on the left seem to want to lump all of these groups together as simply black, but I think this does a disservice to both groups. It seems absurd to think that a single mother on welfare has much in common with a multi generational, large family which values work and education. My concern is that there will be resentment towards that Africans from the African Americans because the immigrants will likely see more upward mobility due to their culture. In a place like this, that resentment could get ugly.
Art,
Obviously shutting the door or at least the vast majority of the doors for a time is the starting point. We need to deal with the people that are here first. I don't think it's possible or wise to shut the door entirely to do so.
Clearly assimilation is the key. Almost all of the immigrant families I worked with over a 10+ year period were absolutely committed to the American Dream and willing to work their asses off to achieve it. They were obsessive about educating their children as well.
Muslims are raised in a culture of violence, which teaches violence even to their children, which gives enough of a reason for high-schoolers to be violent. Do we know what started the kerfuffle?
That's quite the broad generalization. It also presumes that all Muslims are equally devout, and that all Muslims support violence and teach violence to their children. Obviously we see that in Gaza, with US support and funding. You do you, but I'm not a fan of applying these sorts of generalizations to individuals about whom I know nothing.
It is unlikely we will ever know what's causing these fights, the local media will protect that information if they ever find out because it goes against the narrative. Hell, it could very well be that the Muslims were the target of some sort of bullying and finally responded.
Ultimately, it's surprising that these fights get reported at all.
Glenn,
While I have major problems with Islam as a religion and it's tenets, that doesn't automatically mean that I have problems with every Muslim I deal with. I know it's easier to judge people by the groups they might be in, but I prefer to judge individuals as such to the extent I am able.
Anyone who follows the Muslim religion, follows the Qur'an and Hadiths, will teach and practice violence to those who are not Muslim. That faith also teaches that one will live peacefully and appear to be friendly until they are in a position of power. Therefore, you cannot know if the Muslims you know and meet are truly peace-loving.
Well, that's definitely one way to go through life.
Craig,
Well, it's the safest when dealing with Muslims. Read up on the Islamic religion.
Obviously living in some degree of fear of one specific group of people is an incredibly healthy way to live life.
I've read plenty on Islam, I've also spent plenty of time with Muslim immigrants to broad brush them.
It'a not broad brush, it's fact.
https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2024/02/islam_theory_vs_experience_.html
Well if you and the spectator say so, then it must be objectively True. I should clearly ignore my experiences in favor of y'all's wisdom.
Interesting that the experience of having one of, if not the, largest Somali population in the US means nothing compared to Greece.
I guess it's not possible that immigrating across the Atlantic (as opposed to overland or across the Med or Bosporus) would maybe weed out some of the crazies. I guess it's not possible that those that have gone through the actual immigration/screening process might have some different views on how to live out their faith.
Yeah, you're right. All Muslims are just a violent outbreak waiting to happen.
Ya know, experiences with people who are doctrinally taught to deceive you do NOT giver you an objective view. The article plainly describes what is happening in Greece by letting in Muslims. THe same is in France and Germany, as well as "Dearbornistan."
Have you read the Qur'an? Hadith? History of Islam and its teachings?
It is not a broad brush to say they only assimilate until in a position of power. But, hey, what can Islamic doctrine and history compare to your experience?
Ya know that going through life prejudging people based on your view of their religion seems like an incredibly negative way to live. Living in fear that some random Muslim child might erupt into violence at any second, must be stressful.
Yes, I've read the Quran, and multiple other sources on information about Islam. I have huge issues with Islam as a religion, with Sharia as a legal system, but I don't automatically assume the worst about every Muslim I ancounter.
Again, the "they" as if you can broad brush every Muslim.
I can't stop you from living in fear of others. I prefer to deal with individuals as individuals, not primarily as members of group. Because of that, I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt until I have evidence to the contrary. But you do you. You absolutely have the license to live that way and I'd never dream of trying to convince you to stop.
I have to question the use of "living in fear". In life, we take so many precautions against misfortune without being accused of "living in fear". As Glenn suggests...and others have written much to affirm the sense of it...it makes sense to give more attention to a group who has a history of all of which Glenn speaks and more. Now, as I've stated, I had a muslim family living next door and we got along just fine (their Bosnian coffee was AWESOME!). I had no reason in particular to suspect they were waiting to spring into action against infidels like me. But that doesn't mean that circumstances won't ever arise in which paying greater attention to them wouldn't be a bad idea...attention which wouldn't be at all warranted for everyone. And still I wouldn't be "living in fear". I'd would just be negotiating my way through life with knowledge and understanding. But I'm not saying I believed they were listening to messages from the homeland or Mecca every night in case orders came down. They seemed like regular, Americanized foreigners.
Maybe "living in fear" was a bit hyperbolic, yet I can't imagine going through life interacting with other people, all while being worried that they will erupt in violence.
OK, but if "circumstances arise" that might prompt them to violently attack you, I'd suspect that it wouldn't happen suddenly and there would be warning signs. I also suspect that US culture is going to slowly soften the commitment of any Muslim immigrants. Further, you ARE differentiating between your neighbors who you know, and Muslims as a group. While there is some value in "profiling" those we don't know, I'm not sure that it has as much value with those we know.
Yes, we could go through life concerned about Muslims, Black folks, Italians, Irish, and any number of groups based on the actions of some people in that group.
As per my other post, I think that one of the significant failings of our current society is the rush to see people primarily is members of whatever group they're in, not as individuals. We then judge people based on the actions of others in their group, rather than on their own actions. If I'm walking through N MPLS after dark, and I see 4-5 teenagers acting or dressed in certain ways, I'm going to be more alert. But it's based on the actions of that particular group, not on the actions of the thugs who destroyed MPLS in 2020.
Obviously Islam has teachings that are abhorrent to many people, and obviously millions of the 1.8 (or so) billion Muslims follow those teachings. But I see no reason to judge the rest based on those actions. Just like "christians", there is a spectrum of Muslims who have different degrees of faithfulness to Islam.
Do you think that black folks should automatically be wary of you just because white supremacists exist? All I'm saying is that we shouldn't draw conclusions about people based on the actions of others.
I don't live in fear, just more alert to what's going on around me.
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