I have a feeling that I'll be writing these posts every so often over the next few years. But, what in the hell is Trump doing? Why in the world would he seemingly, seriously, suggest that the US take over Gaza, kick the population out, and bulldoze if to build resorts?
I completely understand that Gaza is a disaster for those who live there as well as for their neighbors, and the world. Why in the hell would a president who's campaigned on staying out of wars, champion a policy that likely leads to armed conflict? If the Muslim nations of the Middle East can't or won't use their billions to offer help to those who share their faith, why would the US get involved?
Yes, the Arab nations should have accepted those who they forced out of Israel when they invaded in 1948. Yes, they should have taken them, given them citizenship and assimilated them instead of putting them in refugee camps, and treating them like pariahs. Yes, the Arab world should be investing in Gaza to build something good for the people, not funneling billions to Hamas to engage in terrorism. Yes, the Arab world should be eradicating Hamas, instead of encouraging them. No, the US should not unilaterally go into Gaza and bulldoze the place.
Trump's Greenland thing makes some sense. The US can develop the natural resources in Greenland and use those beneficially. Hell, if Trump suggested surrounding Port au Prince and eradicating the gangs and drug traffickers tearing things down and starting over, I might not reflexively oppose that. At least partially because Haiti has the theoretical potential to be a reasonably well functioning state with an economy based on tourism, Gaza doesn't.
This is what is so frustrating about Trump. He's started off strong and is doing what he was elected to do. But for some reason he can't stop himself from saying things like this and stirring up controversy.
Don't get me wrong. Cleaning out Gaza of Hamas and it's terrorist sympathizers, and starting over, is not a categorically bad idea. The US doing so unilaterally, is.
13 comments:
Anytime Dan speaks "positively" about me or something I've said, I get nervous.
In this case he said that I've "dipped my toe" into something with this post.
Of course, this is one more example of Dan trying to twist reality to fit his narrative. I have repeatedly posted criticisms or questions about Trump and some of his actions, this is merely one more.
Since I posted this, I've heard some people argue that this is a negotiating ploy on Trump's part. If that is the case, and Trump can negotiate the Arab world into doing what they should have done in 1948, then more power to him. The entire fake "palestinian crisis" has been caused by the feckless promises that the invading Arabs made to fellow Arabs living in Israel. They couldn't back up the promises they made, and wouldn't deal with the fallout of their failures.
As an aside, I do not believe that the Arab nations would have followed through on their promises to Arabs living in Israel even if they had won.
If Trump can negotiate the Arab nations into cleaning up their mess, I'm all for it.
First, I wonder if TRUMP is just blathering to distract from other things he wants. Second, Gaza should go back to Israel,
If it's blathering, then it's stupid and distracts from what's important. If Gaza goes back to anyone, Israel probably makes the most sense.
This is the type of thing which exposes who is paying attention to Trump and who isn't. As time passes, from his first term to today, it should be clear that he does much which is meant to encourage the best of others, having already decided how to proceed if others refuse to act. I would suggest that he doesn't say this as if there wouldn't be...at the very least...full assistance and participation of Israel, as well as some idea of how to accomplish the notion, even if on our own.
But consider...all of Gaza and the West Bank, too, is in reality part of Israel. It always has been and I don't think the Barlfour Declaration provided for either. Both of these areas should be returned to Israel in no uncertain terms as their territory, with Israel deciding whether or not there would be any input by the falsely named "Palestinians" as to how those areas are governed. I think Trump understands this.
But as regards Gaza specifically, thanks to the actions of Hamas, widely supported by the morons who live there, the place is destroyed, truly inhabitable, and as that land was ceded to them in a gesture of peace, they have given up any claim to it, as it was never there's in the first place and they have no legitimate claim to it. Now that they've invited it's destruction, the people are effectively refugees and it's clear they need to move out, even if stupidly, they were guaranteed it's only a temporary thing. It shouldn't be. They're only there at the good graces of Israel, which sadly, it turned out was a stupid move. The Balfour Declaration supposed Israel would accept anyone as citizens, but the Gazans are assholes who wish Israel to be annihilated. To pretend there's any chance that Gaza is best in the hands of assholes must be put way the hell out of anyone's mind and the Gazans must take whatever is given them, because they tried and lost yet again.
I don't care that there might be some tiny percentage of Gazans who don't hate Israel and have no desire they should be harmed in any way. If I were one of them, I would concede that the land to which I wrongly believed I had a right is filled with assholes with whom I would prefer I was never associate and I would make every effort to leave and live somewhere else. Assuming I could trace back my lineage to before 1947 and/or the Balfour Declaration...that I am mostly likely mostly Egyptian, Jordanian or one of the other Arab nations who unsuccessfully tried to drive out Israel back then...I would claim that as my actual nationality (given there's no such thing as a "Palestinian" nationality") and move elsewhere, like maybe even Israel itself, given how much more together they are, and totally disavow any "Palestinian" nationality and live in peace with peace loving people...not the dregs of the world which make up the vast majority of Gaza.
Gazans must give up their desire to wipe Jews from existence and live among Arabs who are really no different than they except for their insanity.
Trump knows all of this, and his actions flow from that knowledge. He's right to speak truthfully about how dangerous it is to live in Gaza with no utilities, a government who suck all money and supplies and with all the IEDs and tunnels about to cave in and buildings on the verge of collapsing.
When Israel ceded the Gaza strip to these assholes who mean to kill them all, there was some semblance of an infrastructure, which the Gazan asshole destroyed. It was akin to a sparsely furnished apartment to a great extent, and they chose to use the kitchen table as a weapon. They have proven that the last people to have any voice as to what becomes of the Gazans are the Gazans themselves and good people are not well served by refusing to accept that truth. If that were not true, they would already have been absorbed by Egypt, Jordan or any of the other Arab countries who sought to drive out the Jews in the 1940s.
And yet, those are exactly the countries who should be stepping up as those who falsely pretend to be pallies are descendants of any number of those countries. Trump knows this, and like he did with NATO, he's attempting to force them to accept their responsibility in the deaths and destruction by their rejection of their own.
Gaza most definitely would be lucrative as a "Riviera". No freakin' doubt. Dubai would be pissed because of the competition, but nonetheless, however it might come to be such a place would enhance life for all nations surrounding that part of Israel.
The main thing is to end Hamas and all who think like them. Maintaining Gaza as it was before they invited their own destruction means nothing will change with regard to relations between Israel and any arab peoples who occupy their land in Gaza. It's not just Hamas who must leave, but everyone who has any affinity with their Jew hatred must leave, too. Only then will peace have a chance. We know Israel wants peace. Look at all the stupid shit they tried to do to encourage it....like ceding Gaza to assholes.
That shit has to stop. This is what Trump knows and what he's doing is a different approach to the problem. Israel is a great ally if we don't shit on them like Democrats do. They'll be total partners in whatever seems like goofy suggestions by Trump, if those suggestions are implemented to any extent. We can't pretend that what happens in the Middle East will have no negative impact on us. Trump knows this, too. Don't get too hung up on how he expresses himself.
Interesting response. None of that has anything to do with what Trump actually said. He literally advocated that the US take over Gaza, expel those who live there, and turn it into a resort.
The West Bank and Gaza were not controlled by Israel until after the '67 war, although the UN partition appeared to give Israel a sliver of the West Bank, while denying them Jerusalem.
Given that the Balfour Declaration was from 1917, and merely formed a British protectorate, I fail to see much relevance to post 1948 Israel Especially as Britain did everything possible to tilt the scales toward the Arabs in 1948.
Yes, the destruction in Gaza is and should be laid at the feet of Hamas, yet that doesn't seem to be justification for Trumps "resort strategy". The reality is that the US has no compelling reason to put boots on the ground (as we saw with the pier debacle) in Gaza.
Israel did and does accept anyone of any background as citizens and has since 1948. That greedy Arabs conned some of the Arabs living in Israel to leave in hopes of plunder is on them. The problem arises from the refusal of the Arab nations to assimilate those that fled Israel and their consigning them to third class status and poorly run concentration camps.
Yes, the desire of the Arab bloc to erase Israel from the map and to kill all of the Jews should be eliminated.
That Trump can realize the obvious regarding conditions in Gaza, indicates that he can look at pictures. The problem is his insistence that the US somehow take over Gaza, evict those who live there, and turn it into a "resort". Given what we know of those who live in Gaza, it seems likely that Trump Gaza would be a rocket magnet along with Israel.
I'm not going to waste time rehashing the history of the "palestinians". I will note that Israel gave in to pressure to cede land for peace and did not get peace from the Arabs.
Obviously ending Hamas, Hezbollah, etc. is important. But Trump is talking about something else entirely. Of course pissing off more Arabs by taking over Gaza and making it a "resort" is a "goofy idea". Of course, getting rid of Hamas and Hez is going to magically stop Iran and other state sponsors of terror. Of course building a "resort" in Gaza isn't going to give the extremists a new target to lob rockets at.
Obviously, the US needs to support Israel. However, supporting Israel has never involved direct US involvement.
I'm not "hung up on how he expresses himself", I'm gobsmacked by the fact that the guy who ran on "no new wars" is proposing that the US directly involve itself in a war in Gaza. I'm gobsmacked by Mr "America First" deciding that direct involvement in Gaza furthers that agenda. I'm mystified as to how he thinks that creating a rocket magnet in Gaza is a good idea.
Mostly, I'm shocked at the lengths you'll go to as you excuse/defend what is clearly a "goofy idea".
It really is perfectly OK to point out when politicians (even those you support) do or say things that don't make any sense.
Trump probably has numerous ideas about what Gaza should be. I again believe the "takeover" is rhetoric and little else, though it would suggest ongoing support attached to an idea which could be really good for Israel. Turning it into a Middle East Riviera would be en economic boon for Israel which could do much to recoup expenses for fighting off assholes for so many decades.
We often hear that islam, after taking control of territory, regards that territory as theirs forever and they will never stop seeking to reclaim it if driven out. I get that and believe Israel (and us if we felt so inclined) should do as well, even if by less bloodthirsty means (if possible). Thus, my loose citation of history means the entirety of both the West Bank and Gaza are indeed Israel and should never be considered anything else, should never be ruled by islamic laws and notions, and all muslims would be better off for it. Israel will never be better off with either existing as muslim enclaves seeking statehood. EVER. So inducing them to leave would be the best idea, and inducing arab nations to accept them would be as well. Most of those nations certainly have the room for another two million or some portion of that per nation. This is a plan which must succeed for all concerned, whether Gaza becomes a resort or not.
And what to do with the people while all which threatens lives in Gaza remain? Crumbling buildings unfit for habitation, tunnels also compromised and which should not exist given how they're used by Gazans, explosives planted here and there. No truly "innocent" Gazans should lose their lives pretending they can survive in that place (though the rest of them are free to walk around until they explode). They need to relocate those people as refugees if necessary and there's no better place than among other arabs.
It's just his kind of out of the box thinking which has led to all manner of improvements. The more crazy the situation (and certainly nothing makes so little sense as hatred of the Jews), the crazier the antidote is likely to be. What sense did it make to land on the moon when first suggested? None, really. It was just a desire. Is a moon landing a more beneficial desire than to end the conflict between Israel and those who hate them? We're already a target of the same people who hate the Jews. They're just closer.
But "goofy ideas" provoke responses. It's a form of slapping someone to get their attention...rattling cages...and this "goofy idea" thing Trump is known for gets attention focused on the issue.
I will say this: to be allied with friendly nations is meaningless if any time direct involvement is needed will only be regarded as something which should never be done. Israel usually doesn't want military assistance. I don't see that Trump would force them to take it or that he even could without also making an enemy of Israel. So "taking over" is not likely to mean more than directing, at Israel's pleasure, aspects of how to clean up the mess of Gaza.
And while it's not guaranteed that Trump can provoke positive behaviors out of Egypt or Jordan as he has with NATO nations coughing up bucks, I wouldn't put it past him to get something substantial out of them, and likely for ourselves as well.
It's far too early to sweat over this, and clearly you're indeed hung up on how he expresses himself. BTW, I was taken aback at his idea as well, but not to the point that I pretend steps won't be taken to deal with islamic blowback if there are any islamists left around to do anything about it. They hate and will continue to hate and there's little that can be done about it if any manage to avoid getting terminated. I hate the notion of rejecting good and even "goofy" ideas simply because assholes exist. The right plan is to push the good ideas and deal with the assholes as needed.
Who cares what "ideas" Trump has about Gaza? The US has no rational claim to Gaza. If Gaza was going to go to anyone, Israel and Egypt would be the obvious and logical choices. Beyond that placing a US possession in the Middle East is just begging for it to be the target of terrorist attacks.
We're (the US and Israel) not "Islam". We don't operate by the rules that "Islam" operates by. To argue that to lower ourselves to that level is the appropriate response seems bizarre.
Again, if one looks at the actual history, one would see that the Arabs have not and do not want the "palestinians" as anything but cannon fodder to be held in concentration camps so as to foment radicalism. It's what should have happened following 1948, but didn't. It's never going to happen, because the Arab nations have committed to this course of action, and refuse to take responsibility for what they've created. They like the fact that the "palestinians" are their terrorist proxies and can be counted on to continue to attack Israel based on the lies they've been told by their "brother" Arabs.
Unfortunately, we can't/don't dictate to other sovereign nations.
I appreciate your commitment, but seriously, it seems like admitting that Trump's "Gaza resort" thing is one of his bad ideas and letting it go is a good option. It's OK to acknowledge that Trump isn't perfect and that he occasionally says or does stupid things.
Because the US spending billions of dollars to build a "resort" on territory that belongs to those who live there, or Israel, or Egypt and would immediately place a target for every terrorist or state sponsor of terrorism is definitely an "out of the box" idea. A bad idea, but an idea.
IF, this is "rattling cages" then (as I'm pretty sure I noted) then it would be evaluated differently. However, if that is the case, then he'd need to have the outcome be a home run for his comments to be a good strategy. Since we can't know if he was serious, or cage rattling, I am choosing to treat this a a serious idea until proven otherwise.
The ally issue is a totally different conversation. If this was about supporting our "allies" we'd be talking about giving it to Israel or Egypt, not taking over. That Biden was a shitty ally to Israel and that Trump will be better, is not really part of this conversation.
IF that happens, we can deal with that. Until it does, it's a stupid idea.
If this was a "good idea" you might have a point. Unfortunately, in a world where we have enough problems in the US taking on someone else's problem makes very little sense.
Not to belabor the point, but I heard much of Mark Levin's interview with Bibi Netanyahu, wherein we learn just how down Bibi is with Trump's actions regarding Gaza. He loves the out-of-the-box thinking, but he doesn't speak of it as Trump taking over anything, nor wanting him to do so. So somehow, Bibi understands what Trump meant, which isn't much different than what I suspected he meant, and others will continue to assume the worst of what he meant. I guess all should do themselves, but it would be better to step back on this type of thing as well until all details are known.
No, belabor away.
Maybe the disconnect is that Trump has actually said more to Netanyahu than simply announcing that he wants to level Gaza to build a "resort". Maybe the problem is that he makes these vague, stupid sounding public statements and doesn't bother to go into more detail.
As I noted, the Greenland thing actually makes some sense after a bit of research even though it sounded stupid when he originally said it.
I know expecting POTUS to communicate well is an unrealistic expectation...
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