How many gay lesbian and transgender people have you asked this question to? How many stories have you read from Gay and Lesbian transgender people on these questions?
The point of a band like that is that conversion therapy is objectively harmful. And so they're ruling out causing harm. People have been objectively harmed by such attempts.
Oftentimes times, such attempts have been made against a person's will or in such a manner that they felt forced into it. After all, if the choices undergo conversion therapy or go to hell, as the case is presented to so many people, that's a pretty strong pressure to acquiesce.
To address your questions, sexual orientation can be fluid, as well. It's not binary. And recognizing that it's not binary, the idea of forcing someone into an orientation as conversion therapy attempts to do, is recognized as causing harm and that is why it is being banned.
Feel free to listen to what lgbtq people say about this. Read up on how people have been harmed. Do you agree that attempts to force an orientation that does not naturally belong to someone upon them is a negative and harmful idea? And therefore, reasonably banned?
So again, and more directly to your question, orientation is not necessarily immutable. Population-wise, it is a spectrum. For a specific person, it might be immutable. But for another person it may be more fluid. The same is true for gender. Were you not familiar with this? Do you need some recommendations on gender and orientation studies and research?
Hiding your head in the sand is no way to Enlighten yourself. Abandon the cowardice. Abandon the small and shallow thinking. Listen to what other people are saying. Words of advice for you to live by.
I’m going to address why Dan’s off topic comment is off topic, and why.
Dan’s assertion (offered without proof), is that “conversion therapy”, is “objectivity harmful”. The problem with this assertion is that I didn’t address the topic of the efficacy of these therapies. I didn’t, because I suspect that there is a broad spectrum of these therapies and that there are a range of possible outcomes. I know I don’t have enough information to make that sort of claim, and I didn’t make it.
The other problem with this broad, unsupported claim is that it is based on the assumption that there aren’t people who choose this type of therapy, and that people never have positive outcomes from it.
This means that Dan is advocating for the government to deny people the choice to engage in a therapeutic treatment. Interesting.
And I answered your question. You asked questions I answered it. That you don't want to deal with the answer is on you, not on me. Again I would just ask you, are you aware of what the experts are saying? Are you aware of what the data shows? Have you talked to lgbtq people about this or read what they've had to say? If you aren't going to listen to the people who know, then asking questions doesn't help you. Do you recognize that reality?
Sorry,. Dan makes the point that orientation is immutable in individuals, which makes it strange that he’d deny individuals the choice of how they deal with this orientation.
Of course, that doesn’t address the issue. If sexual preference is immutable in an individual, then why wouldn’t gender be immutable.
Dan, perhaps I wasn’t specific. When I told you that your comments would live in moderation until you caught up, I actually meant it. I meant caught up, not “I’ve answered some of your questions”, actually caught up. I answered all of yours, I expect the same courtesy. I’m sorry that I had to impose some restrictions to get your attention, but I did and it clearly hadn’t quite penetrated yet.
You’re the one who told me I couldn’t comment ever again, I’ve just instituted some temporary restrictions.
9 comments:
How many gay lesbian and transgender people have you asked this question to? How many stories have you read from Gay and Lesbian transgender people on these questions?
The point of a band like that is that conversion therapy is objectively harmful. And so they're ruling out causing harm. People have been objectively harmed by such attempts.
Oftentimes times, such attempts have been made against a person's will or in such a manner that they felt forced into it. After all, if the choices undergo conversion therapy or go to hell, as the case is presented to so many people, that's a pretty strong pressure to acquiesce.
To address your questions, sexual orientation can be fluid, as well. It's not binary. And recognizing that it's not binary, the idea of forcing someone into an orientation as conversion therapy attempts to do, is recognized as causing harm and that is why it is being banned.
Feel free to listen to what lgbtq people say about this. Read up on how people have been harmed. Do you agree that attempts to force an orientation that does not naturally belong to someone upon them is a negative and harmful idea? And therefore, reasonably banned?
So again, and more directly to your question, orientation is not necessarily immutable. Population-wise, it is a spectrum. For a specific person, it might be immutable. But for another person it may be more fluid. The same is true for gender. Were you not familiar with this? Do you need some recommendations on gender and orientation studies and research?
I’ll give Dan credit for trying to respond outside of his safe space, but in the absence of getting caught up, his comments remain in moderation.
However, his first comment addresses a point not mentioned in the post. It’s therefore off topic and irrelevant to the thread.
In his second, he makes some claims of fact without actually providing any data that might prove him correct.
It’s a commendable effort, but lacking.
Hiding your head in the sand is no way to Enlighten yourself. Abandon the cowardice. Abandon the small and shallow thinking. Listen to what other people are saying. Words of advice for you to live by.
I’m going to address why Dan’s off topic comment is off topic, and why.
Dan’s assertion (offered without proof), is that “conversion therapy”, is “objectivity harmful”. The problem with this assertion is that I didn’t address the topic of the efficacy of these therapies. I didn’t, because I suspect that there is a broad spectrum of these therapies and that there are a range of possible outcomes. I know I don’t have enough information to make that sort of claim, and I didn’t make it.
The other problem with this broad, unsupported claim is that it is based on the assumption that there aren’t people who choose this type of therapy, and that people never have positive outcomes from it.
This means that Dan is advocating for the government to deny people the choice to engage in a therapeutic treatment. Interesting.
And I answered your question. You asked questions I answered it. That you don't want to deal with the answer is on you, not on me. Again I would just ask you, are you aware of what the experts are saying? Are you aware of what the data shows? Have you talked to lgbtq people about this or read what they've had to say? If you aren't going to listen to the people who know, then asking questions doesn't help you. Do you recognize that reality?
Sorry,. Dan makes the point that orientation is immutable in individuals, which makes it strange that he’d deny individuals the choice of how they deal with this orientation.
Of course, that doesn’t address the issue. If sexual preference is immutable in an individual, then why wouldn’t gender be immutable.
The person who won’t answer questions on my blog, and who banned me from his blog, is a strange choice to lecture me about cowardice.
Man up, catch up, and get your comments out of moderation.
Dan, perhaps I wasn’t specific. When I told you that your comments would live in moderation until you caught up, I actually meant it. I meant caught up, not “I’ve answered some of your questions”, actually caught up. I answered all of yours, I expect the same courtesy. I’m sorry that I had to impose some restrictions to get your attention, but I did and it clearly hadn’t quite penetrated yet.
You’re the one who told me I couldn’t comment ever again, I’ve just instituted some temporary restrictions.
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