I find this obsession with labeling Trump as “your president” laughably pathetic. I have precisely the same relationship with Trump that I had with P-BO. I didn’t support or vote for either of them during the election cycles, but once they were sworn in, I supported actions or policies I agreed with, and criticized the actions I didn’t.
The simple fact is that no matter who sits in the office and what we think of them, they aren’t “yours or mine”, they are the president.
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Seriously, I'm with you. I remember a Christian guy in the '90's who voted for Buchanan and disavowed all connection to Clinton because "I didn't vote for him!" "He's not my president," he told me. Except, ummm, he was. Clinton was the only president at the time. For, against, it didn't matter. He was the president. Obama vs the right or Trump vs the Left is irrelevant. The president is the president and it doesn't really matter if I support him or not.
I am not a Trump fan. I even posted several times on my blog warning about him. (Dan even quoted me positively once.) But, like you, in all cases, I evaluate the item and not the person and determine if I like it or not. Apparently that makes you and I very unusual.
Apparently it does. I remember praising both P-BO and Clinton for things they did in office and I remember slamming Bush for some things he did in office. It almost like being consistent in how you treat presidents is a bad thing now.
You're missing the point. I and we are not saying that you voted for him. We are saying your people, conservative white evangelicals, your people elected him and keep them in office.
We're saying you and your people are not doing enough to actively stop the harm that he's doing. We're saying you and your people do not even recognize the harm that he is doing. Perhaps the greatest harm he does is his constant assault on facts and Truth. His assault on the media and on liberals. On women and minorities and immigrants. You don't recognize these assaults and the harm they cause, therefore you do not speak up. Therefore you help enable him.
You are no doubt familiar with the common saying, all it takes for evil to succeed is for good people to remain quiet. You are remaining quiet and that is the problem.
Look, all other things being the same, if Trump had been voted in as a Democrat and had these attacks on immigrants and women and the media and people of color, I would have to speak out. It wouldn't be enough that I did not vote for him. I would have to actively speak out.
Since my people had elected him, I would be even MORE responsible for speaking up and actively working to stop him.
What you do not seem to understand is the utter depth of depravity that this man represents and how unique he is in all of us history. You don't understand the problem, therefore you contribute to the problem.
You can be sure that had Trump been elected as a Democrat, people like me would be actively, actively seeking to bring him down.
Of course, he could never be elected as Democrat. We recognize the great harm, racism, sexism, the great Danger his assaults on facts and the Press represent. He could never be elected as a Democrat.
This is the problem, then, with modern conservatism. Except for George Will and a few others, modern conservatives by and large don't even recognize the problem or the depth of the problem.
No Dan, I completely get it. It’s more important that you engage in this sort of group identity politics than in dealing with reality. You’ve decided that I am part of the group (your decision, not mine), and therefore you can ascribe motivation and responsibility to me that are unrelated to me as an individual.
Perhaps minimizing people’s individuality in order to put them into a group isn’t a great way to relate to other people.
What’s interesting is that you fight tooth and nail to distance yourself from other progressives or liberals, yet have no problem lumping others into groups for your convenience.
It’s more of your double standards on display.
What did Jesus day? “Treat the materially poor better than the middle class.”? No, it was “Love others as you love yourself”. Well, if you don’t love being lumped in with all the other online progressives....
Again, the double standard. You’ve just admitted you remain quiet when it’s folx on your side.
The problem you have is that in reality, I haven’t remained quiet. It’s that I can express myself without expletive laden, vitriolic, hateful personal attacks.
Sorry for the third comment. The problem isn’t that Trump isn’t “my” president, it’s the inference that he’s not “your” president. It’s the “I didn’t get my way and I’m going to throw a tantrum, cover my head with a pillow, and live in an alternate reality.”.
As I pointed out, it’s a slightly more mature, reasonable approach than, “Orange man evil.”.
“say”, not “day”.
Dan, if you’d actually have spoken out about any of the instances of DFL elected officials behaving badly, I might be willing to give you the benefit of the doubt that you’d do what you claim.
Unfortunately your actions (or silence) tell quite a different story.
Once again, you are making huge assumptions about what I do or don’t do. Ignoring the fact that I live in a state that’s elected two consecutive congressional candidates with significant personal issues. It’s just more of your group identity politics, it’s easier to lump someone in as part of a group to dismiss them as an individual. So that you can assign gross generalizations as if they are accurate. All the while whining when you suspect anything remotely similar is being done to you.
As happens so often, your silence heralds your double standards much more loudly that your words.
If you threat me this way, then I guess I know how you want to be treated.
You're just factually mistaken and I guess I'm not the one to help you understand.
What a great comeback so vague and nonspecific, yet so well supported by evidence. Well done.
But your commitment to group identity politics is commendable. It’s so much easier when you can avoid dealing with people as individuals and just pin whatever you want on them.
Very brave and compassionate.
Maybe Dan can do a post about all the harm Trump has brought about. Of course, it won't be truthful, and likely won't be detailed and supported by evidence that can be verified.
"Perhaps the greatest harm he does is his constant assault on facts and Truth. His assault on the media and on liberals. On women and minorities and immigrants."
In what way is Trump assaulting facts and truth in a manner that is not bested by Dan's own assault, as well as the assault by left-wing politicians? Which fact and truth specifically concerns Dan so much?
We've been over the "assault on the press" and yet Dan ignores the many examples of media malfeasance I've presented for his edification. He wrote them off as mere mistakes and such and/or isolated incidents, rather than what they were...examples of a greater pattern recognized by half the nation (at least) since before Trump even ran for office.
Assault on liberals?? Really??? Dan's going to wet his Pampers over Trump going after those who have constantly labeled anyone right of center as racist, misogynist, homophobic, war mongers, haters of the poor and all sorts of other vile crap spewed for the blatant purpose of drawing support from those the left has convinced are victims? Give me a freakin' break!
On women? Are you referring to all the women he's had in his administration, or the "Squad"? I guess women on the left are off limits regardless of their positions of power.
It's insane the things Dan likes to pretend are real.
As to "our" versus "not my" president, I concur with Stan and Craig. I absolutely did not like anything about Obama. I was not moved by the Lilly Ledbetter Act. I didn't mind drone strikes on terrorists, but that's hardly taking care of business. Yet, the chump was my president nonetheless. I never said he wasn't. I just made sure it was well known that I didn't vote for him. Any reference to any president being "yours" or "mine" is not to say either doesn't go for me as well. Thus, if Dan says, "YOUR president" in reference to Trump, my response is "He's yours, too" or "He's OUR president". One needn't like it, and Dan surely doesn't because he's not bright enough. But it's true. Trump is OUR president, and God willing will be for a second term.
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