2. Are you suggesting that there has been violence, like molotov cocktails by PROTESTERS in Minneapolis after Alex Pretti was beaten and murdered for helping a woman that wash assaulted by ICE types? Because, you KNOW don't you, that the violence and murders have come from ICE, not the protesters?
3. Or are you comparing throwing snowballs at ICE to the actual violence by ICE?
4. Pretti was a helper, a good person siding with someone who had been shoved down/assaulted to defend them, just like he helped veterans daily in his nursing job.
5. Kirk was a provocateur who made all sorts of accusations and got rich by spreading his false claims and attacks.
Speaking of: By this time, it's clear that Pretti was assaulted, maced and had his gun removed BEFORE the murdered him in cold blood. Are you EVER going to stand against these fascist thugs and their dangerous assault on US citizens?
1. Sorry, I can't read your mind and you'd bitch and moan if I tried to figure out what this means.
2. I am stating the absolute fact that there have been more Molotov cocktails thrown in MPLS by those on the left than by those on the right in the past 15 years. I am stating as an absolute fact that MPLS left wing protesters have a history of throwing Molotov cocktails, as well as other deadly projectiles at LE and innocent bystanders.
3. If by "snowballs" you mean actual chunks/bottles of ice... I can't decide if your ignorance of the "anti-ICE" violence in MSP over the past few weeks is intentional or stupidity.
4. As time goes on we are getting a more complete picture of Pretti, and it (as often happens with left wing martyrs) isn't what y'all desperately want it to be. It's strange that a nurse who just wanted to be a "helper" chose to pack a "military grade" gun when he was chasing ICE agents instead of a first aid kit or medical supplies.
5. What in interesting excuse for him being killed, the weeks of death threats against his family, the false and hateful rhetoric used to justify his murder, and your own callous indifference to the harm being perpetrated by your side.
That you choose to slander Kirk, while (once again) beatifying the most recent leftist martyr while bitching about slander is hilarious, although expected.
That you've committed to a narrative before all of the facts and information have come out, is also hilarious and also expected.
While it may be "clear" to you in your incredibly well educated and expert opinion, I'm not sure that your statement of fact will hold up as more information comes out.
Strangely enough, it is clear that Pretti had interfered with ICE (a physical altercation) previously, was interfering with ICE agents before he was shot, and that he was much more than an innocent bystander.
Your choice to lie and slander is strange to say the least. As your assumptive claim that I have "chosen" ICE agents as "heroes" cannot be based on anything that I have done or said, I can only assume that you believe that lying about me somehow helps you.
Most of what I said about the Good shooting, applies to this one as well. They were both tragic and could have been avoided. But why pay attention to what I've actually said, when you can make shit up and lie.
Given Dan's choice to ignore one of the few rule of conduct I have here and after multiple examples of me showing grace to him when he doesn't, his recent comment will be aborted.
After living through the Summer of Love, the siege of the 2nd precinct, and many other instances of violence directed at both LE and innocent bystanders, I can only imagine the intentional blindness that you must contend with. That you choose to ignore the fact that ICE deported and killed significantly more during the P-BO reign alone, to focus on these two tragic, and preventable deaths, shows your partisan hackery. That you choose to ignore the left wing violence of the past few weeks in MSP, ditto. That you ignore the role played by city, county, and state government officials in the situation, ditto. Finally, MSP is a small percentage of the criminal illegal aliens that have been detained and deported over the last year, yet in no other metro area do we see this kind of violence and interference. One wonders why this could be.
Hint, I posted an article about a comparison of how Memphis? (Nashville?) handles these situations compared to MSP.
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This is a list of real victims of violence and murder, until you can go after the ones who victimized them with the vehemence you demonstrate about Good and Pretti, I'll remain convinced that these two dead people are just ammunition for you to use for political purposes.
The best information I have found about Pretti, aside from him being an anti-ICE activist who previously tangled with them, the videos show ICE trying to keep him back and yet he continues to interfere so the ICE takes him to the ground. In his back him a gun is noticed and it is quickly removed while an office yells "gun." Split second later the gun goes off on its own (a KNOWN problem with that particular model). So call it over-reacting and not murder. An LEO yells "gun" and a shot rings out and it is assumed Pretti fired a shot and is the reason the cops unloaded on him. Accident due to circumstances but NOT murder.
My sympathy for those who are killed is proportionate to the degree of responsibility they had for their deaths. While I'm not unsympathetic, and I acknowledge the unnecessary tragedy, I can't ignore the reality that they made choices that led to tragic consequences.
I agree. We are also seeing evidence that his parents were concerned that he would push things to far, that he had quit his job as a nurse, and that there are some things from his time at the VA that don't support the narrative around Pretti.
Much like Good, this could have been avoided. All that was necessary was for Pretti simply done what his carry classes taught him to do, or to take the advice of the rabble rousers and not engage.
The significant possibility of an accidental discharge during the encounter would only have made things worse.
What isn't talked about much is that the actions of the protesters (whistles, etc) are intended to have a negative effect on the abilities of the officers to process and to increase their stress and disorientation. Likewise, the protests at hotels will affect the officers ability to function due to lack of sleep. It's almost like the "protesters" want to create situations where ICE agents are more likely to respond poorly.
I've tried to make it clear to Dan that his use of inaccurate adjectives to describe these incidents will not be tolerated and will result in his comments being aborted. So far, no charges have even been filed and everyone involved is "innocent until proven guilty" for Dan to presume guilt is simply slander. Which, he engages in much more than you'd think.
I've decided to no longer refer to these deaths as "tragic". "Deserved" is more accurate, though I won't be using that without explanation. But "tragic" should be reserved for those who had nothing to do with bringing about their deaths. Both Good and Pretti don't fall into that category.
I tried to find info on how many US citizens were among the roughly 56 who died during the Obama era during deportation operations by ICE. I can't find that anyone has even tried to separate out such victims from the total. In the meantime, pretending it matters when those citizens killed during current operations have been those obstructing justice and as such they are not "victims" of ICE and absolutely not "murder" victims until such time as a court of law (hopefully with conservative judges) rules that the evidence justifies such a ruling.
Well that's exactly it, Craig, and always is with the marxist/progressive lefties like Dan. It's about posturing and projecting evil upon ideological opponents. Those like Dan just don't really care about victims. They care about framing Trump as responsible, because...you know...embrace grace. That's what it looks like.
Going by analysis by those who's character I don't have justification for questioning, I'm not sure Pretti's piece caused the first gun shot. One vid (with sound) appears as if the first shot was fired by an officer (the one standing behind him). A point was made regarding his positioning and the time between turning to face the scrum and his firing of his gat. He was facing 180 degrees the other way (his attention on another protester) and then turned to face the backside of Pretti and then drew and fired. The time was mere seconds for the entire turn-and-shoot. The chronology of events...when "GUN!" was first shouted, what those right there was seeing or not seeing when it was and to what extent the first shot led to the subsequent barrage...is still being sorted out.
Craig speaks to the actions of the protesters, all intended to complicate the ability of the ICE officers to do their job quickly and effectively and I can't see how this particular scenario can be anticipated exactly, even by those with decades of experience. The grace-embracing anarchist progressives have stepped up their tactics over the last ten to fifteen years, and I'm sure LE is seeing new methods of criminal grace embracing all the time.
I'm far less sympathetic for their deaths than I am for how corrupted they were by grace-embracing marxist progressives. Were it not for that, they'd still be with us (presumably).
You do you, but any death which was so easily avoidable could reasonably be referred to as tragic. That they played a starring role in the events that led to the tragedies is part and parcel of the whole story.
The details aren't that important. The narrative that this was business as usual during P-BO is simply ignored because the new narrative doesn't have to bear any connection to anything that happened previously.
Remember those "kids in cages" that everyone got all worked up about during Trump 1.0? They weren't bothered at all that both the kids and the cages were holdovers from P-BO.
They only care about the "approved" victims, not the ones that are victimized by the policies and candidates they blindly support. Those are just collateral damage on the way to liberal utopia.
That their deaths have been co opted and used for political gain (and for the benefit of some vile criminals) isn't totally the fault of Good and Pretti. It could be argued that both were "brainwashed" to some degree (given what Good's "wife" said and what Pretti's parents said), yet they had agency and chose to engage in actions that directly led to their deaths. I do have some degree of sympathy for those who get used by these political opportunists as cannon fodder, and because they were convinced that martyrdom for the cause would get them sainthood (I see you St George of the Counterfeit $20). They're convinced that Frey will genuflect at their golden coffin and that they'll be the spark that sets off the revolution. (It's probably not the rational of a thought process, but you know they dug seeing Frey bow before St George)
Anyway, I'll give them the degree of sympathy they deserve, while also keeping their role in their own deaths in mind.
21 comments:
1. ?
2. Are you suggesting that there has been violence, like molotov cocktails by PROTESTERS in Minneapolis after Alex Pretti was beaten and murdered for helping a woman that wash assaulted by ICE types? Because, you KNOW don't you, that the violence and murders have come from ICE, not the protesters?
3. Or are you comparing throwing snowballs at ICE to the actual violence by ICE?
4. Pretti was a helper, a good person siding with someone who had been shoved down/assaulted to defend them, just like he helped veterans daily in his nursing job.
5. Kirk was a provocateur who made all sorts of accusations and got rich by spreading his false claims and attacks.
You're comparing rotten apples and oranges.
Speaking of: By this time, it's clear that Pretti was assaulted, maced and had his gun removed BEFORE the murdered him in cold blood. Are you EVER going to stand against these fascist thugs and their dangerous assault on US citizens?
You choose all the wrong "heroes."
1. Sorry, I can't read your mind and you'd bitch and moan if I tried to figure out what this means.
2. I am stating the absolute fact that there have been more Molotov cocktails thrown in MPLS by those on the left than by those on the right in the past 15 years. I am stating as an absolute fact that MPLS left wing protesters have a history of throwing Molotov cocktails, as well as other deadly projectiles at LE and innocent bystanders.
3. If by "snowballs" you mean actual chunks/bottles of ice... I can't decide if your ignorance of the "anti-ICE" violence in MSP over the past few weeks is intentional or stupidity.
4. As time goes on we are getting a more complete picture of Pretti, and it (as often happens with left wing martyrs) isn't what y'all desperately want it to be. It's strange that a nurse who just wanted to be a "helper" chose to pack a "military grade" gun when he was chasing ICE agents instead of a first aid kit or medical supplies.
5. What in interesting excuse for him being killed, the weeks of death threats against his family, the false and hateful rhetoric used to justify his murder, and your own callous indifference to the harm being perpetrated by your side.
That you choose to slander Kirk, while (once again) beatifying the most recent leftist martyr while bitching about slander is hilarious, although expected.
That you've committed to a narrative before all of the facts and information have come out, is also hilarious and also expected.
While it may be "clear" to you in your incredibly well educated and expert opinion, I'm not sure that your statement of fact will hold up as more information comes out.
Strangely enough, it is clear that Pretti had interfered with ICE (a physical altercation) previously, was interfering with ICE agents before he was shot, and that he was much more than an innocent bystander.
Your choice to lie and slander is strange to say the least. As your assumptive claim that I have "chosen" ICE agents as "heroes" cannot be based on anything that I have done or said, I can only assume that you believe that lying about me somehow helps you.
Most of what I said about the Good shooting, applies to this one as well. They were both tragic and could have been avoided. But why pay attention to what I've actually said, when you can make shit up and lie.
Given Dan's choice to ignore one of the few rule of conduct I have here and after multiple examples of me showing grace to him when he doesn't, his recent comment will be aborted.
After living through the Summer of Love, the siege of the 2nd precinct, and many other instances of violence directed at both LE and innocent bystanders, I can only imagine the intentional blindness that you must contend with. That you choose to ignore the fact that ICE deported and killed significantly more during the P-BO reign alone, to focus on these two tragic, and preventable deaths, shows your partisan hackery. That you choose to ignore the left wing violence of the past few weeks in MSP, ditto. That you ignore the role played by city, county, and state government officials in the situation, ditto. Finally, MSP is a small percentage of the criminal illegal aliens that have been detained and deported over the last year, yet in no other metro area do we see this kind of violence and interference. One wonders why this could be.
Hint, I posted an article about a comparison of how Memphis? (Nashville?) handles these situations compared to MSP.
Joshua Wilkerson
Rachel Morin
Laken Riley
Jocelyn Nungaray
Kayla Hamilton
Kate Steinle
Brandon Mendoza
Mollie Tibetts
Brianna Kelson
Karen Diamond
Billy McKellar
Zabar McKellar
Krishaun McKellar
Kason McKellar
Nicole Gregory
Larisha Thompson
Jimmy Friesenhahn
Ava Moore
Jorge Gonzalez
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Jim McCammon
Camillia Williams
Mileth Guerra
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Martin Adame
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Victor Huerta
Terry Aultman
Brenda Aultman
Erin Simanskis
Ruby Garcia
George Levin
Lizbeth Medina
Maria Gonzalez
Aiden De Paz
Luis Lopez
Hallie Helgeson
Brady Heiling
Ivory Smith
Alex AJ Wise Jr
Mustaffa Muhammad
Nicacio Gonzalez
Jon Douglas Ratcliffe
Jacques Price
Amalia Choc de Pec
Estrella Pec Coc
Maricela Franco
Jeremy Caceras
Santiago Jacobo
Anjelica Guadalupe
Amaya Briceno
Aiden Clark
Kimberlee Guillory
Gloria Palomec
Paul Osokin
Anya Varfolomeev
Jennifer Morton
Dania Mejia
Dennis Buan
David Hang
Colby Compton
Gretchen Gross
Crecensio De La Rosa
Corbin Wagner
Francisco Cuellar
Douglas R Cline
Isidro Cortes
Karina Torres
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Cheston Edwards
Cindy Goulding
Evelyn Falcon
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Victoria Harwell
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John Anderson
Carol Wolff
Logan & Jessica Wilson
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Madison Wells
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Ryan Thompson
Brian Terry
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Julie Smith
Jaxon Smith
Ronil Singh
James Sims
Jensen Sheets
Mayra Sanchez
Christopher Rowe
Drew Rosenberg
Robert Rosas
Donald Rackley
Harold Preston
Dwayne Polk
Christy Pina
Oscar Navarro
Parker Moore
Rhyan Moody
Sue Marcum
Jeffrey Monroe
Carl Molinaro
Elizabeth Pena
Johanna Pascoe
This is a list of real victims of violence and murder, until you can go after the ones who victimized them with the vehemence you demonstrate about Good and Pretti, I'll remain convinced that these two dead people are just ammunition for you to use for political purposes.
The best information I have found about Pretti, aside from him being an anti-ICE activist who previously tangled with them, the videos show ICE trying to keep him back and yet he continues to interfere so the ICE takes him to the ground. In his back him a gun is noticed and it is quickly removed while an office yells "gun." Split second later the gun goes off on its own (a KNOWN problem with that particular model). So call it over-reacting and not murder. An LEO yells "gun" and a shot rings out and it is assumed Pretti fired a shot and is the reason the cops unloaded on him. Accident due to circumstances but NOT murder.
My sympathy for those who are killed is proportionate to the degree of responsibility they had for their deaths. While I'm not unsympathetic, and I acknowledge the unnecessary tragedy, I can't ignore the reality that they made choices that led to tragic consequences.
I agree. We are also seeing evidence that his parents were concerned that he would push things to far, that he had quit his job as a nurse, and that there are some things from his time at the VA that don't support the narrative around Pretti.
Much like Good, this could have been avoided. All that was necessary was for Pretti simply done what his carry classes taught him to do, or to take the advice of the rabble rousers and not engage.
The significant possibility of an accidental discharge during the encounter would only have made things worse.
What isn't talked about much is that the actions of the protesters (whistles, etc) are intended to have a negative effect on the abilities of the officers to process and to increase their stress and disorientation. Likewise, the protests at hotels will affect the officers ability to function due to lack of sleep. It's almost like the "protesters" want to create situations where ICE agents are more likely to respond poorly.
I've tried to make it clear to Dan that his use of inaccurate adjectives to describe these incidents will not be tolerated and will result in his comments being aborted. So far, no charges have even been filed and everyone involved is "innocent until proven guilty" for Dan to presume guilt is simply slander. Which, he engages in much more than you'd think.
I've decided to no longer refer to these deaths as "tragic". "Deserved" is more accurate, though I won't be using that without explanation. But "tragic" should be reserved for those who had nothing to do with bringing about their deaths. Both Good and Pretti don't fall into that category.
I tried to find info on how many US citizens were among the roughly 56 who died during the Obama era during deportation operations by ICE. I can't find that anyone has even tried to separate out such victims from the total. In the meantime, pretending it matters when those citizens killed during current operations have been those obstructing justice and as such they are not "victims" of ICE and absolutely not "murder" victims until such time as a court of law (hopefully with conservative judges) rules that the evidence justifies such a ruling.
Well that's exactly it, Craig, and always is with the marxist/progressive lefties like Dan. It's about posturing and projecting evil upon ideological opponents. Those like Dan just don't really care about victims. They care about framing Trump as responsible, because...you know...embrace grace. That's what it looks like.
Going by analysis by those who's character I don't have justification for questioning, I'm not sure Pretti's piece caused the first gun shot. One vid (with sound) appears as if the first shot was fired by an officer (the one standing behind him). A point was made regarding his positioning and the time between turning to face the scrum and his firing of his gat. He was facing 180 degrees the other way (his attention on another protester) and then turned to face the backside of Pretti and then drew and fired. The time was mere seconds for the entire turn-and-shoot. The chronology of events...when "GUN!" was first shouted, what those right there was seeing or not seeing when it was and to what extent the first shot led to the subsequent barrage...is still being sorted out.
Craig speaks to the actions of the protesters, all intended to complicate the ability of the ICE officers to do their job quickly and effectively and I can't see how this particular scenario can be anticipated exactly, even by those with decades of experience. The grace-embracing anarchist progressives have stepped up their tactics over the last ten to fifteen years, and I'm sure LE is seeing new methods of criminal grace embracing all the time.
I'm far less sympathetic for their deaths than I am for how corrupted they were by grace-embracing marxist progressives. Were it not for that, they'd still be with us (presumably).
You do you, but any death which was so easily avoidable could reasonably be referred to as tragic. That they played a starring role in the events that led to the tragedies is part and parcel of the whole story.
The details aren't that important. The narrative that this was business as usual during P-BO is simply ignored because the new narrative doesn't have to bear any connection to anything that happened previously.
Remember those "kids in cages" that everyone got all worked up about during Trump 1.0? They weren't bothered at all that both the kids and the cages were holdovers from P-BO.
They only care about the "approved" victims, not the ones that are victimized by the policies and candidates they blindly support. Those are just collateral damage on the way to liberal utopia.
A simple MPD buffer zone around ICE enforcement actions would have likely prevented both of these shootings.
Yet the disorientation actions of the protesters should absolutely be mitigating factors when it comes to any legal action against the agents.
That their deaths have been co opted and used for political gain (and for the benefit of some vile criminals) isn't totally the fault of Good and Pretti. It could be argued that both were "brainwashed" to some degree (given what Good's "wife" said and what Pretti's parents said), yet they had agency and chose to engage in actions that directly led to their deaths. I do have some degree of sympathy for those who get used by these political opportunists as cannon fodder, and because they were convinced that martyrdom for the cause would get them sainthood (I see you St George of the Counterfeit $20). They're convinced that Frey will genuflect at their golden coffin and that they'll be the spark that sets off the revolution. (It's probably not the rational of a thought process, but you know they dug seeing Frey bow before St George)
Anyway, I'll give them the degree of sympathy they deserve, while also keeping their role in their own deaths in mind.
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