Straw Men

 

"1. Do you believe that some sins deserve eternal torment?"

 

No.  

 

"2. What specific crimes or misdeeds warrant eternal torment?"

 

See answer above.  

 

"3. Do you believe/theorize that even one sin, one single lie to your mother, justifies eternal torment?"

 

See #1.

 

"4. But how is that consistent with justice or ideas of justice as justice is normally understood?"

 

This is impossible to answer.    Without a universal, objective, standard for "justice", this is just asking for an opinion.   define "normally understood" when "justice? for theft runs from amputation of limbs, to probation? 

 

"5. Do you believe in the perfectly loving and perfectly just God? "

 

Yes, I believe that those of two of YHWH's immutable attributes.   

 

"6. How do you define perfectly loving and perfectly just? Based on what?"

 

Based on what has been revealed to us about YHWH, the following is a good start.   Having said that demanding an exhaustive, complete definition of something or someone that is completely beyond our ability to comprehend is ridiculous.   

 

 "Perfect means being entirely without flaws, completely correct, or satisfying all requirements to the highest possible degree. It describes something so complete and excellent that it cannot be improved upon."

 

" In the Bible, "perfect" rarely means flawless or sinless. It typically translates from the Hebrew word tamim and the Greek word teleios, which mean complete, mature, whole, or having reached one's intended purpose."

 

" The Bible defines love as a selfless, sacrificial, and unconditional commitment to the well-being of others. Rather than just an emotion, biblical love (agape) is an active choice to show grace, seek the best for someone else, and put their needs above your own."

 

"Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres."

 

 "The biblical concept of justice is primarily built on two foundational Hebrew words found in the Old Testament, which are often paired together: [1]

• Mishpat (מִשְׁפָּט): Primarily translated as "justice" or "judgment." It refers to rendering to each person what is due them, punishing evil, and actively protecting the rights of the marginalized—specifically the "quartet of the vulnerable": the widow, the orphan, the poor, and the immigrant.
• Tzedakah (צְדָקָה): Translated as "righteousness." While this involves personal moral uprightness, it also heavily implies acting ethically and fairly in all of your relationships and giving to those in need.
• Dikaiosyne (δικαιοσύνη): The New Testament Greek equivalent, carrying the same dual meaning of personal moral integrity and a lifestyle that seeks fairness and equity for others." 

 

 "7. Do you believe that it is God's will that none should perish or be tortured, not one human?"

 

 "The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance."

 

 

Let's start with accurately quoting the scripture you are adding to.   Let's also consider that these are not the words of Jesus from one of His public sermons,  Further, let's look at some of the context.  

 

 

" ² I want you to recall the words spoken in the past by the holy prophets and the command given by our Lord and Savior through your apostles"

 

The author is appealing to Scripture and encouraging the readers to recall both the Hebrew Scriptures as well as the teachings of both Jesus AND the "apostles".    

^"3 Above all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires. ⁴ They will say, “Where is this ‘coming’ he promised? Ever since our ancestors died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation.” ⁵ But they deliberately forget that long ago by God’s word the heavens came into being and the earth was formed out of water and by water. ⁶ By these waters also the world of that time was deluged and destroyed. ⁷ By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly."

The author grounds his position in the reality of YHWH creating the heavens and the earth, as well as noting the coming judgement and "destruction of the ungodly"  

^"8 But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. ⁹ The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance."

The phrase you take out of context is focusing on YHWH's patience in giving ample time before the judgement referred to.  

^"10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything done in it will be laid bare.^[a]

¹¹ Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives ¹² as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming.^[b] That day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat. ¹³ But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, where righteousness dwells."

Note the call to holiness and godliness as we wait for the ultimate destruction, judgement, and restoration.  

^"14 So then, dear friends, since you are looking forward to this, make every effort to be found spotless, blameless and at peace with him. ¹⁵ Bear in mind that our Lord’s patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. ¹⁶ He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction."

Interesting that the author speaks so highly of Paul and of the message Paul was preaching.  While the author does point out that YHWH's patience does allow for salvation, he does not state unequivocally that salvation is universal.  

When you take a snippet of a verse out of context, add your own editorial spin to it, and pretend like you're actually quoting scripture, it's hard to take you seriously.   As your question is based on your own perversion of scripture, I see no reason to dignify it with any more of an answer.  

"8. Why would you take a verse that says something about eternal hell literally but not the verse that clearly says God is not willing that any should perish?"

 

I take both seriously.  One wonders why you don't.  Of course, I take the actual verse and it's context into account rather than pulling a snippet out of context and editing it.  

 

"9. What is your rubric for deciding which verses should be taken literally and which figuratively?"

 

I take all verses literally.   

 

"10. Can you clarify that you can't objectively know which passages should be taken figuratively and which literally OR do you think that you DO have that power to understand perfectly the literal and figurative verses?"

 

See above.   

"And other questions like these..."

 

Now that I've answered these simplistic, weak attempts at gotcha questions to the extent that time, space, and scripture twisting allow.  I want to note a couple of things.   

 

First, questions 1, 2, and 3, are simply asking the same thing in slightly different ways.   Effectively making them one question.  

 

Second,  likewise 4,5, and 6, are also simply minor variations of the same question.  

 

Third,  questions 7 and 8 are based on a false premise which renders then pointless and irrelevant. 

 

Fourth, questions 9 and 10 are  (again) examples of asking the same question in slightly different ways.   

 

Which leaves us with 4 questions, instead of 10.  All of which have been answered, responded to elsewhere.   

 

Leaving us with the "And other questions like these..." phrase.  Which is idiotic and meaningless.   

 

It's easy to be a mighty keyboard warrior when your opponents are all straw men.