If we’re to believe the current narrative, the guy who shot up an ICE office, is a angry, white supremacist, racist, whose out to eradicate black and brown people from the face of the earth.
It remains to be seen who did it. It certainly was wrong. Here's what when ICE official said...
"We cannot allow political discourse to lead us to the point of violence, where federal employees, innocent people doing their jobs, are put in harm's way,"
And, indeed, it is a shame that some have allowed political discourse to lead us to the point of violence, where innocent people are put In harm's way. Would that conservatives could see that this is just as true for the immigrant seeking refuge as it is for ICE officers, whoever shot at their office building.
While you are correct, and are echoing my usual response to these sorts of things, this post is more of a commentary on the narrative than on the incident.
The narrative is that all of the "mass shooters" or folx that engage in violence are "white supremacists", "racists", "right wing" and the like. When an event doesn't fit that narrative (Dayton, Tacoma, Portland, San Antonio, etc) it somehow drops of the radar and gets ignored.
So, while I agree that we should wait for the full information to find out, I suspect that if the initial reports prove correct, that we'll never hear the full story.
If you have evidence of random people shooting at random immigrants or setting explosive devices to harm them, please share that information.
Well, the reality is that no one (and let me repeat it again, so you understand: NO. ONE.) is seriously saying that "all" of the mass shooters are white supremacists.
There is NO (let me repeat it again, so you understand - NO.) "narrative" that says all mass shooters are white supremacists.
What there IS, however, is an effort by the Trump-types of the world (and here, you are clearly one of them) to falsely claim that "the media" is out there "pushing false narratives..." about stuff. It is an effort (deliberate or not) to undermine the media and expert opinion and should be stopped.
As to this: "If you have evidence of random people shooting at random immigrants or setting explosive devices to harm them, please share that information." ...I truly believe that you are NOT stupid enough to think that the only violence that happens is through shooting or explosions. Having said that, there ARE white supremacists who are literally doing this. Did you miss the news last weekend?
Do you live under a rock? Not follow anything on the media? Do you understand that by pointing out the reality that the narrative is focused on pushing the idea that it’s primarily a bunch of “right wing, white supremacists”, is not the same thing as saying “everyone” is saying something?
Of course there is a narrative being pushed by various parts of the culture, including the media. It explains why we hear virtually nothing about the events and motivations of the incidents I mentioned. It explains why you stay silent about the incidents I mentioned.
Did you not read what I wrote? No, I have a life and sometimes miss news stories.
Craig... "? Do you understand that by pointing out the reality that the narrative is focused on pushing the idea that it’s primarily a bunch of “right wing, white supremacists”, is not the same thing as saying “everyone” is saying something?"
ALSO Craig...
"The narrative is that ALL of the "mass shooters" or folx that engage in violence are "white supremacists"
You literally said ALL. That is literally false. It's akin to so many of the false claims that Trump makes attacking the free press. It's part of an on-going right wing narrative to say that the media is "fake news..." when you all are the ones passing on literal fake news.
As to what the media reports... I DO watch the media and no, they literally don't say that all of these mass shootings are connected to white wing extremists. They report that MANY are, and as a matter of fact, MANY ARE.
Do you not watch the news sufficiently to recognize that?
FYI, it's not about "undermine"(ing) the media, it's about holding them accountable for what they're supposed to be doing. You know, unbiased, accurate, reporting of the facts?
I've mentioned this in passing, but it's germane so I'll mention it again.
My cousin (Journalism degree from OU, taught in the MU J school) is currently involved in a project to understand and correct the lack of trust in the media. The reality is (according to the research she's mentioned) is that the national media has very little credibility with people. So, let's not pretend this is some big made up thing.
Your problem is that the narrative supports your biases, so you don't think about it.
Your equating of "media" and "expert" is a bit strange, I'd love to see you demonstrate that premise.
Do you understand that by pointing out the reality that the narrative is focused on pushing the idea that it’s primarily a bunch of “right wing, white supremacists”, is not the same thing as saying “everyone” is saying something?
Also Craig...
The narrative is that all of the "mass shooters" or folx that engage in violence are "white supremacists", "racists", "right wing" and the like.
I repeat my point:
The reality is that no one (and let me repeat it again, so you understand: NO. ONE.) is seriously saying that "all" of the mass shooters are white supremacists.
There is NO (let me repeat it again, so you understand - NO.) "narrative" that says all mass shooters are white supremacists.
+++++
So, apparently you want to amend what you're saying to acknowledge that not ALL mass shooters are white supremacists...? Is that right?
If so, then just say so. I can only deal with your words you write, not what you mean to suggest.
So, your new claim...
"the narrative is focused on pushing the idea that it’s primarily a bunch of “right wing"
Really? Support that charge. I would suggest that there is no such narrative and that you almost certainly can't support this claim factually. Rather, it's a feeling or hunch you have, but you have no data to suggest that the reporters all get together to determine a "narrative" of "primarily, the shooters are white supremacists/conservatives..." Is that correct?
If so, please say so.
Of course there is a narrative being pushed by various parts of the culture, including the media. It explains why we hear virtually nothing about the events and motivations of the incidents I mentioned.
Again, you can't support this rather ridiculous charge. As to "hearing nothing about other motivations..." It IS true that when the shooters don't have this common thread of white supremacy/conservatism, the media doesn't mention that they're an exception to those shootings... but why would they?
Professional reporters and experts will acknowledge when trends are noticed and there IS a trend that many of these mass shooters have had conservative/right wing/white supremacist connections. Another trait that they share is one that you are sharing right in this post: There has been a conspiracy-mindset adopted by many white conservatives that "they" are "out to get us..." that the media, colleges, the gov't, the liberals, the Democrats, the school system has an agenda against white conservative culture. You all are feeling "under attack," and this feeds into your conspiratorial mindset.
Of course, the reality is there is no "war on Christmas" and that there is no conspiracy against white conservatives... rather, what is happening is that you all are becoming an increasing minority where you've enjoyed a popular majority for centuries and you're feeling threatened because of this shift away from being the culturally dominant players. People just won't buy into the anti-gay, anti-feminist, anti-social democracy, anti-POC, anti-immigrant views any more and you're having to actually try to make your argument for your cases and your arguments are no longer holding water and, because of that, you feel threatened.
Don't you think that's the more reasonable explanation for this hostility towards the media?
I’m sorry you were confused, there is a narrative out there, being prominently pushed that the mass shootings are a “right wing white supremacist” problem. The fact that you and much of the media go silent when something goes against that seems proof enough.
As to the rest, there’s overwhelming evidence that much of the media is slanted towards the left. But just ignore that.
Did you not read what I wrote? No, I have a life and sometimes miss news stories.
?? You wrote this in response to me talking about the HUGE mass shooting that was ALL over the news in El Paso where the shooter was a fan of Trump and committed the atrocity because he feared the "invasion" of Mexicans that Trump warned about.
You surely did not miss this news... it's what led to your post, isn't it? There were TWO huge shootings on Saturday a week ago. Did you miss that the guy was specifically gunning for Latinos? How?
Or what does your question above mean?
Marshall, shut the fuck up. People's lives are being harmed because of people like you supporting a president like Trump. You care about potential harm if it's a white ICE officer but not a brown latino. That says it all, doesn't it?
I’m sorry you were confused, there is a narrative out there, being prominently pushed that the mass shootings are a “right wing white supremacist” problem
Many mass shootings ARE a right wing white supremacist problem. I'm sorry if that hurts your little lily white feelings but people are being harmed by right wing nuts, racists, xenophobes. It IS a problem.
It's not a "narrative that's being pushed..." it's reality.
Do you recognize that reality?
Do you recognize that the FBI has warned about the threat posed by white supremacists in our nation?
Are you denying the numbers of people being harmed, oppressed and killed by white supremacists? If so, you are part of the problem.
Educate yourself. In the meantime, get out of the way because adults have work to do and don't need to be interrupted by people denying the dangers.
I’m sorry you were confused, there is a narrative out there, being prominently pushed that the mass shootings are a “right wing white supremacist” problem
Many mass shootings ARE a right wing white supremacist problem. I'm sorry if that hurts your little lily white feelings but people are being harmed by right wing nuts, racists, xenophobes. It IS a problem.
It's not a "narrative that's being pushed..." it's reality.
Do you recognize that reality?
Do you recognize that the FBI has warned about the threat posed by white supremacists in our nation?
Are you denying the numbers of people being harmed, oppressed and killed by white supremacists? If so, you are part of the problem.
Educate yourself. In the meantime, get out of the way because adults have work to do and don't need to be interrupted by people denying the dangers.
there’s overwhelming evidence that much of the media is slanted towards the left. But just ignore that.
I'm ignoring nothing. You are, however. All the questions that you just ignore and pretend they'll go away.
Some of the media is more liberal. Some of it is more conservative. Some in between. No doubt. The media is made up of humans and we are not perfectly unbiased. What of it?
There's a difference, however, in saying that CNN is slanting a bit liberal in its coverage or that FOX slants a bit right... there's a difference between nothing that and making stupidly false and unsupported nonsensical false charges that there is a "narrative being pushed..." or that it's "fake news..." News always has had and always will have a bias in it, that's human reality. But by and large, all the major news groups do present actual news. There may be editorials that lean one way or the other and there may be some editorializing that happens even within the news (just watch FoxNews for examples of that regularly!), but that doesn't mean they're not trustworthy or that they're reporting fake stories.
So, what the hell's your point? We should IGNORE the media (left and right) because they have slants? Go for it. See if you can make yourself even MORE uninformed than you already are. Echo chambers and lily white towers of ignorance can be bliss.
Sorry, your strange characterization of the EP shooting threw me off.
But thanks for pointing out the reality that we’ve dug deep on the EP shooter’s motives while being as quiet as possible about the motives of the Dayton shooter.
Google just ate a more detailed comment, you’ll just have to stop whining and be patient.
"Marshall, shut the f**k up. People's lives are being harmed because of people like you supporting a president like Trump. You care about potential harm if it's a white ICE officer but not a brown latino. That says it all, doesn't it?"
All it says is that you're a liar (well...it says more, but I've been asked to abide a rule). People's lives are being harmed because they are making bad choices...NOT because of our president or the laws he's required to enforce. If there's a problem with a law, law enforcement is still obliged to enforce. If you don't like the law, you're to appeal to legislators for change...not enable those who intend to break the law.
Only a liar would suggest that my position is based on race. When speaking of illegal immigration, I can't help if the vast majority of those who break our laws are of one color over another. But my position holds for anyone and everyone regardless of what color they are. It's not a matter of race. It's a matter of potential harm to the United States of America citizen. Our laws and those who enforce them, are for the benefit of the American citizen above all others from outside the nation.
Finally, Dan...you can only delete me at your blog. I don't have to STFU here or anywhere else. If you lack the courage and intelligence to rebut or prove wrong my positions anywhere else, then it is you who would be better served by silence.
15 comments:
It remains to be seen who did it. It certainly was wrong. Here's what when ICE official said...
"We cannot allow political discourse to lead us to the point of violence, where federal employees, innocent people doing their jobs, are put in harm's way,"
And, indeed, it is a shame that some have allowed political discourse to lead us to the point of violence, where innocent people are put In harm's way. Would that conservatives could see that this is just as true for the immigrant seeking refuge as it is for ICE officers, whoever shot at their office building.
While you are correct, and are echoing my usual response to these sorts of things, this post is more of a commentary on the narrative than on the incident.
The narrative is that all of the "mass shooters" or folx that engage in violence are "white supremacists", "racists", "right wing" and the like. When an event doesn't fit that narrative (Dayton, Tacoma, Portland, San Antonio, etc) it somehow drops of the radar and gets ignored.
So, while I agree that we should wait for the full information to find out, I suspect that if the initial reports prove correct, that we'll never hear the full story.
If you have evidence of random people shooting at random immigrants or setting explosive devices to harm them, please share that information.
Well, the reality is that no one (and let me repeat it again, so you understand: NO. ONE.) is seriously saying that "all" of the mass shooters are white supremacists.
There is NO (let me repeat it again, so you understand - NO.) "narrative" that says all mass shooters are white supremacists.
What there IS, however, is an effort by the Trump-types of the world (and here, you are clearly one of them) to falsely claim that "the media" is out there "pushing false narratives..." about stuff. It is an effort (deliberate or not) to undermine the media and expert opinion and should be stopped.
As to this: "If you have evidence of random people shooting at random immigrants or setting explosive devices to harm them, please share that information." ...I truly believe that you are NOT stupid enough to think that the only violence that happens is through shooting or explosions. Having said that, there ARE white supremacists who are literally doing this. Did you miss the news last weekend?
Dan,
Do you live under a rock? Not follow anything on the media? Do you understand that by pointing out the reality that the narrative is focused on pushing the idea that it’s primarily a bunch of “right wing, white supremacists”, is not the same thing as saying “everyone” is saying something?
Of course there is a narrative being pushed by various parts of the culture, including the media. It explains why we hear virtually nothing about the events and motivations of the incidents I mentioned. It explains why you stay silent about the incidents I mentioned.
Did you not read what I wrote? No, I have a life and sometimes miss news stories.
Craig... "? Do you understand that by pointing out the reality that the narrative is focused on pushing the idea that it’s primarily a bunch of “right wing, white supremacists”, is not the same thing as saying “everyone” is saying something?"
ALSO Craig...
"The narrative is that ALL of the "mass shooters" or folx that engage in violence are "white supremacists"
You literally said ALL. That is literally false. It's akin to so many of the false claims that Trump makes attacking the free press. It's part of an on-going right wing narrative to say that the media is "fake news..." when you all are the ones passing on literal fake news.
As to what the media reports... I DO watch the media and no, they literally don't say that all of these mass shootings are connected to white wing extremists. They report that MANY are, and as a matter of fact, MANY ARE.
Do you not watch the news sufficiently to recognize that?
FYI, it's not about "undermine"(ing) the media, it's about holding them accountable for what they're supposed to be doing. You know, unbiased, accurate, reporting of the facts?
I've mentioned this in passing, but it's germane so I'll mention it again.
My cousin (Journalism degree from OU, taught in the MU J school) is currently involved in a project to understand and correct the lack of trust in the media. The reality is (according to the research she's mentioned) is that the national media has very little credibility with people. So, let's not pretend this is some big made up thing.
Your problem is that the narrative supports your biases, so you don't think about it.
Your equating of "media" and "expert" is a bit strange, I'd love to see you demonstrate that premise.
Craig...
Do you understand that by pointing out the reality that the narrative is focused on pushing the idea that it’s primarily a bunch of “right wing, white supremacists”, is not the same thing as saying “everyone” is saying something?
Also Craig...
The narrative is that all of the "mass shooters" or folx that engage in violence are "white supremacists", "racists", "right wing" and the like.
I repeat my point:
The reality is that no one (and let me repeat it again, so you understand: NO. ONE.) is seriously saying that "all" of the mass shooters are white supremacists.
There is NO (let me repeat it again, so you understand - NO.) "narrative" that says all mass shooters are white supremacists.
+++++
So, apparently you want to amend what you're saying to acknowledge that not ALL mass shooters are white supremacists...? Is that right?
If so, then just say so. I can only deal with your words you write, not what you mean to suggest.
So, your new claim...
"the narrative is focused on pushing the idea that it’s primarily a bunch of “right wing"
Really? Support that charge. I would suggest that there is no such narrative and that you almost certainly can't support this claim factually. Rather, it's a feeling or hunch you have, but you have no data to suggest that the reporters all get together to determine a "narrative" of "primarily, the shooters are white supremacists/conservatives..." Is that correct?
If so, please say so.
Of course there is a narrative being pushed by various parts of the culture, including the media. It explains why we hear virtually nothing about the events and motivations of the incidents I mentioned.
Again, you can't support this rather ridiculous charge. As to "hearing nothing about other motivations..." It IS true that when the shooters don't have this common thread of white supremacy/conservatism, the media doesn't mention that they're an exception to those shootings... but why would they?
Professional reporters and experts will acknowledge when trends are noticed and there IS a trend that many of these mass shooters have had conservative/right wing/white supremacist connections. Another trait that they share is one that you are sharing right in this post: There has been a conspiracy-mindset adopted by many white conservatives that "they" are "out to get us..." that the media, colleges, the gov't, the liberals, the Democrats, the school system has an agenda against white conservative culture. You all are feeling "under attack," and this feeds into your conspiratorial mindset.
Of course, the reality is there is no "war on Christmas" and that there is no conspiracy against white conservatives... rather, what is happening is that you all are becoming an increasing minority where you've enjoyed a popular majority for centuries and you're feeling threatened because of this shift away from being the culturally dominant players. People just won't buy into the anti-gay, anti-feminist, anti-social democracy, anti-POC, anti-immigrant views any more and you're having to actually try to make your argument for your cases and your arguments are no longer holding water and, because of that, you feel threatened.
Don't you think that's the more reasonable explanation for this hostility towards the media?
Dan is again trying to make the case that whatever suffering experienced by an illegal alien is the result of enforcing our just immigration laws.
He's also once again dismissing the reality regarding the obvious and serious problems of the press.
Dan,
I’m sorry you were confused, there is a narrative out there, being prominently pushed that the mass shootings are a “right wing white supremacist” problem. The fact that you and much of the media go silent when something goes against that seems proof enough.
As to the rest, there’s overwhelming evidence that much of the media is slanted towards the left. But just ignore that.
Craig...
Did you not read what I wrote? No, I have a life and sometimes miss news stories.
?? You wrote this in response to me talking about the HUGE mass shooting that was ALL over the news in El Paso where the shooter was a fan of Trump and committed the atrocity because he feared the "invasion" of Mexicans that Trump warned about.
You surely did not miss this news... it's what led to your post, isn't it? There were TWO huge shootings on Saturday a week ago. Did you miss that the guy was specifically gunning for Latinos? How?
Or what does your question above mean?
Marshall, shut the fuck up. People's lives are being harmed because of people like you supporting a president like Trump. You care about potential harm if it's a white ICE officer but not a brown latino. That says it all, doesn't it?
I’m sorry you were confused, there is a narrative out there, being prominently pushed that the mass shootings are a “right wing white supremacist” problem
Many mass shootings ARE a right wing white supremacist problem. I'm sorry if that hurts your little lily white feelings but people are being harmed by right wing nuts, racists, xenophobes. It IS a problem.
It's not a "narrative that's being pushed..." it's reality.
Do you recognize that reality?
Do you recognize that the FBI has warned about the threat posed by white supremacists in our nation?
Are you denying the numbers of people being harmed, oppressed and killed by white supremacists? If so, you are part of the problem.
Educate yourself. In the meantime, get out of the way because adults have work to do and don't need to be interrupted by people denying the dangers.
I’m sorry you were confused, there is a narrative out there, being prominently pushed that the mass shootings are a “right wing white supremacist” problem
Many mass shootings ARE a right wing white supremacist problem. I'm sorry if that hurts your little lily white feelings but people are being harmed by right wing nuts, racists, xenophobes. It IS a problem.
It's not a "narrative that's being pushed..." it's reality.
Do you recognize that reality?
Do you recognize that the FBI has warned about the threat posed by white supremacists in our nation?
Are you denying the numbers of people being harmed, oppressed and killed by white supremacists? If so, you are part of the problem.
Educate yourself. In the meantime, get out of the way because adults have work to do and don't need to be interrupted by people denying the dangers.
there’s overwhelming evidence that much of the media is slanted towards the left. But just ignore that.
I'm ignoring nothing. You are, however. All the questions that you just ignore and pretend they'll go away.
Some of the media is more liberal. Some of it is more conservative. Some in between. No doubt. The media is made up of humans and we are not perfectly unbiased. What of it?
There's a difference, however, in saying that CNN is slanting a bit liberal in its coverage or that FOX slants a bit right... there's a difference between nothing that and making stupidly false and unsupported nonsensical false charges that there is a "narrative being pushed..." or that it's "fake news..." News always has had and always will have a bias in it, that's human reality. But by and large, all the major news groups do present actual news. There may be editorials that lean one way or the other and there may be some editorializing that happens even within the news (just watch FoxNews for examples of that regularly!), but that doesn't mean they're not trustworthy or that they're reporting fake stories.
So, what the hell's your point? We should IGNORE the media (left and right) because they have slants? Go for it. See if you can make yourself even MORE uninformed than you already are. Echo chambers and lily white towers of ignorance can be bliss.
Sorry, your strange characterization of the EP shooting threw me off.
But thanks for pointing out the reality that we’ve dug deep on the EP shooter’s motives while being as quiet as possible about the motives of the Dayton shooter.
Google just ate a more detailed comment, you’ll just have to stop whining and be patient.
"Marshall, shut the f**k up. People's lives are being harmed because of people like you supporting a president like Trump. You care about potential harm if it's a white ICE officer but not a brown latino. That says it all, doesn't it?"
All it says is that you're a liar (well...it says more, but I've been asked to abide a rule). People's lives are being harmed because they are making bad choices...NOT because of our president or the laws he's required to enforce. If there's a problem with a law, law enforcement is still obliged to enforce. If you don't like the law, you're to appeal to legislators for change...not enable those who intend to break the law.
Only a liar would suggest that my position is based on race. When speaking of illegal immigration, I can't help if the vast majority of those who break our laws are of one color over another. But my position holds for anyone and everyone regardless of what color they are. It's not a matter of race. It's a matter of potential harm to the United States of America citizen. Our laws and those who enforce them, are for the benefit of the American citizen above all others from outside the nation.
Finally, Dan...you can only delete me at your blog. I don't have to STFU here or anywhere else. If you lack the courage and intelligence to rebut or prove wrong my positions anywhere else, then it is you who would be better served by silence.
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