So, on the one year anniversary of the Michael Brown shooting a bunch of folks decide that the best way to celebrate is to shoot at cops, really?
Since this time last year about 60 police officers have been killed in the line of duty. Shot, Assaulted, Hit by a car, Killed during pursuit.
Where are the folks out in the streets protesting this?
For that matter, where are the folks protesting the hundreds of young black men shot, stabbed, or otherwise killed in Chicago, by people who aren't white and aren't police.
The rank hypocrisy shown by a bunch of people gathering to protest against a narrative that has been proven to be false, (especially after the riots, looting, and burning) and the fact that at least some of them thought shooting cops is the way to celebrate is just appalling.
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I'm still trying to figure out what makes Brown worthy of an annual memorial. The guy was a thug. I read witness testimonies from the Justice Dept report, and the article which presented it highlighted black and bi-racial witnesses. One guy stated that he would have shot the f**ker, too. (His words) I can't believe there are really that many black people who fall for this nonsense about cops targeting blacks. But I guess I must.
Because you are dealing with a bunch of people who latched on to the symbol and the narrative, before they new the facts. Now that they have attached themselves they are stuck. Uliltimately advancing the cause and sticking to the narrative are what is important, things like facts and the Truth just get in the way and are just ignored.
The problem they have is that it is rare to find someone who gets far enough into a confrontation with a cop for the cop to draw his/her gun is rarely the kind of person who lends themselves to being the poster child for a movement. These folks aren't Rosa Parks.
I'm not saying the any of these shootings are the best response, but you will note that the system has a way of prosecuting the ones who deserve it, and exonerating the ones who don't. You just have this mob mentality that doesn't want to wait for the facts before, overreacting.
Wow. Good thing "the blacks" have you guys on the job to enlighten them.
Do you not understand how racist and patronizing this sounds?
Dan,
So, when you have nothing relevant to offer, you go right to lies and name calling. Well done.
You will note that the only mention of race was in regard to the relatively unmourned (or at least they are unworthy of protests and looting in their names), victims piling up in cities like Chicago.
So, if concern for victims of crime who happen to be black is racist, then I guess I am. If concern for the police killed in the line of duty is racist, then I guess I am.
If making something that is not about race, into something about race is racist, then I guess you are.
Do you realize how out of touch and blinded by politics you sound?
Of course you don't, which just makes you an idiot.
I am going to leave the comment above, even though it is off topic, as an illustration. Any further off topic comments will be deleted.
It would seem that my idiot comment was correct, you apparently can't read and comprehend a simple declarative sentence written in English.
Forgive me for what, doing what I said I would. If you can't comment on the topic, why complain when I follow through.
Nice try, why not try commenting on the actual topic instead of this false piousness.
It seems that the concept of staying on topic difficult, but I'm sure you'll do better someday.
What is the single biggest cause of death for black youth?
I wonder who it is the is "enlightening" the black population? It isn't the left, as it is the leftist ideology that has brought them to this sorry state of affairs.
Of all the blacks shot by cops...make that, white cops...how many were truly, clearly and proven to be victims of racism? Michael Brown was not one of them. And to symbolize his situation as if an example of something that is not clearly the reality is nothing more than deceitful exploitation. And now, with the violent behavior of "protesters" in Ferguson, we're to pretend it is white people perpetuating stereotypes? Give me a freakin' break!
Just this morning, I heard on a local radio station an interview with Milwaukee County Sheriff David Clark. He called this "protest" what it is...nothing but agitators with a few sincere people in the mix. Clark is black. He more than merely laments the state of affairs in the black communities as he sees it first hand in his position as a law enforcement officer.
But what of those sincere people? They have been led astray. And now they are at risk due to the false charges of racism hurled by race-baiters any time a thug is put down via a righteous shooting by a cop just trying to do his job. In the meantime, other thugs pretend they care about the plight of the black man by shooting at cops and throwing crap at squad cars.
And Dan dares to portray any of this as racist and patronizing? Incredible!
Yeah, I heard some of sheriff Clark as well, it's refreshing to hear someone like him speaking our, he'll be vilified soon.
Of course the BLM bullies going up in Bernie Sanders face, that's a good way to gain sympathy for your cause.
Yeah, I heard some of sheriff Clark as well, it's refreshing to hear someone like him speaking our, he'll be vilified soon.
Of course the BLM bullies going up in Bernie Sanders face, that's a good way to gain sympathy for your cause.
I probably should have included the members of our military who were killed in cold blood in this as well, I don't recall any protests for them.
To address your titular claim, of course, cop lives matter. Does anyone really think that some major group really thinks otherwise?
We are concerned about black lives matter because black lives are the ones at risk, with systems and traditions causing them real world harm. So, when some people start to trivialize the black lives matter cause by watering it down to obvious claims (all lives matter, cop lives matter), they are watering down and dismissing the concerns of a whole swath of people.
And when people like you two suggest that black people tend to be just too damn dumb to understand, then that is, by definition, racism and patronizing as hell. This is what people object to.
Are too many of our urban poor killing one another? Of course, no one is saying otherwise. Don't be an asshole. We're there, we know the problems of the urban poor.
What we are saying is don't say racist things. Don't state obvious things in efforts to dismiss the real concerns of real, intelligent people. If you want to actually be concerned about many issues beyond just the problems that the black community has experienced with law enforcement, by all means, invest time and money and energy to help the causes. You don't have to wave off as idiocy concerns of whole groups of people simply because you don't like it. and when you try to do so, you come across as patronizing at best and having said racist things at worst.
There you go with your accusations of racism again. My problem with BLM is that their very name is misleading. Because clearly, given their choices of what black lives to protest over, they don't treat all black lives equally.
Mike Brown was a thug and a criminal and the entire BLM narrative has been proven false, yet they still lionize the false narrative of him, while ignoring the truely innocent blacks killed. Why is that?
If all black lives really matter why is BLM silent on a large urban school district where roughly 50% of black kids don't graduate? Where roughly 30% of black kids don't read at grade level? Don't those lives matter enough to prtoest?
No one is saying that killing black people is OK, but how about a tiny bit of consistency? It's the same as the "marriage equity for all" crap we heard a couple of years ago, except it's not for all.
The
I guess I have to remind you once again, the what I do every single day I go to work, is to help (mostly) black families have better lives. I guess watching majority black neighborhoods turn to crap around the houses we (and other folks) build. I guess listening to folks like you bitch about rich white people and corporations being greedy, while ignoring the time and money they invest rubs me the wrong way. So if you want vto accuse me of saying racis things while I'm out on the front lines actually helping to make things better for black families, fine. Just realize it makes you look like more of an idiot than you already do.
Oh, you ignored the question earlier about the single largest cause of death of black children, I wonder why?
I
I guess your suggesting that sheriff David Clark sounds like a racist as well.
Just curious, what political party controls both the greater St Louis metropolitan area government? What party has historically controlled both of the major urban areas of MO? What party has controlled the state of MO for the majority of the last 50 years? How many major urban school districts in the state of MO have been stripped of accreditation in the last 40 years? How many black people have been unjustifiably killed by the police in MO compared to the number who have been cheated out of a good education?
All told, how many black people have been killed by police in instances that were unjustified?
I'm sure you are able to provide a quote supporting your assertion that I think blacks are "too damn dumb".
Quote or apology either works.
I'm sure you are able to provide a quote supporting your assertion that I think blacks are "too damn dumb".
My complaint was about what you and Marshall said, the actual words from you two.
Marshall said...
I can't believe there are really that many black people who fall for this nonsense about cops targeting blacks.
The clear implication is that those black people are just stupid, they fall for this nonsense.
Regardless of what you think Marshall's intent might be, do you at least see how this SOUNDS racist and patronizing? Are you wholly unable to look at matters through other people's eyes?
What you said, among other things...
You just have this mob mentality that doesn't want to wait for the facts before, overreacting.
(By the way, did you delete or edit some comment of yours, because what I remember citing earlier does not appear to be there?)
Still, this comment, we have huge numbers of African Americans who recognize there is a real problem of black folk and how they are dealt with by the police. There is a historical context here and people remember history. When you dismiss these concerns as "mob mentality" and "not waiting for facts" it makes it sound like you think black people tend to be too stupid or ignorant or swayed by "the mob" to make rational decisions.
Again, regardless of what your intent might be, are you not able to recognize how this sounds?
As to your work with the poor, good for you, I'm glad you're with me and my community on that front. But if you work with and alongside African Americans and use language like this, you will be suspect, brother. If you have actual friends in the African American community, ask them about Marshall's comment, especially.
"I can't believe that there are really that many BLACK PEOPLE who FALL FOR THIS NONSENSE (ie, who are THAT STUPID/IGNORANT)..." that is a blanket statement condemning a whole race of people (well, except for the few "good blacks" who are not stupid and who, therefore, agree with Marshall...) Ask them about that. Do you really not see how that sounds racist, by definition?
You sound like someone coming from a place of white privilege, not someone in the community. Marshall's comments more so than yours, but yours, too. Just ask some friends about it, engage in a conversation, open up your mind to the notion that MAYBE, just MAYBE, your words are not being used in the best way.
You will note that, in direct contrast to your false claims, I have not called you a racist. I've said that these words sound racist, your collective claims sound racist. I'm talking very specifically about your words, not you as a person. I am entirely confident that you are a good man doing good work, and God bless you for that. I'm just asking that you humble yourself and consider how your words come across.
"To address your titular claim, of course, cop lives matter. Does anyone really think that some major group really thinks otherwise?"
Obviously, the answer is an unequivocal, "YES"!! The major group is all those, black OR white, who believe there is actually something real called "state-sanctioned violence against black people". It's absurd and I challenge anyone (like Dan, since he seems to believe it considering his reference to the mysterious "systems and traditions causing them real world harm") to offer some proof that there is anything akin to a stated policy by any level of government in this country sanctioning violence against black people.
I offer stories here, here and here which describe an outfit that adapted the idiotic (for its obviousness) slogan to focus attention on what is at the very least something of equal importance.
I say "at the very least" due to the fact that a thug who provoked his own death is not worthy of such tribute. But on the date of the anniversary of his death, a minor league team holds a fundraising event during a game for #bluelivesmatter, and the BLM people, as well as too many idiots in the media, suggest it is bad form and insulting.
"Insulting" is memorializing the death of a thug and daring to suggest that anyone should regard that as an example of some kind of systemic racism by governmental agencies, when all it truly is is an example of what happens when one refuses to abide the directions of a cop, or when one chooses to engage with a cop in a threatening manner. It does NOT indicate racism on the part of the police force. It indicates stupidity on the part of the dead guy.
The only people trivializing the lives of blacks are blacks themselves and Democrats in general. The policies they support, the politicians to whom they give their votes...all of it has resulted in the degradation of the black family. Freddie Douglas is spinning like a dervish in his grave. The only question is whether or not he is spinning faster in his that ML King is in his.
Stupid? Absolutely. As I said, it is evident in the policies and people far too many of them support. Heck, just look at the percentage of the black voters who voted twice for Obama. If that doesn't indicate stupidity, not much else does. That's not racist...it's reality. Face it and then maybe you can say that you're doing something meaningful for blacks in this country. Deny it, and you help perpetuate their suffering.
I would just like to add, that the deaths that are held up as proof of racism have parallels with others. Bikers and those who look like bikers, for example, are victims of increased scrutiny by cops and citizens alike. If you want to look like a thug, if you want to act like a tough guy, there should be no whining when a cop takes you seriously.
What's racist about it, Dan? Explain it. The truth is that speaking the truth is regarded as racism, just as it is regarded as hate and bigotry when the truth is spoken about human sexuality and morality. And what, pray tell, could possibly be more patronizing than affirmative action polices, "giving them room to destroy" and other such lunacy?
Dan,
Thanks for admiting the following;
1. That you can't actually find a quote that supports your contention that anyone said anything about black people being "too damn dumb". I didn't think you could and you didn't. The fact that you are projecting your prejudices onto the words of others is just pathetic.
2. You are basing at least part of your rant on something that I didn't say.
Having said that, yes there are plenty of people who are pretty much "too damn dumb", and it is a statistical certainty that some of them are black. Feel free to deny that reality if you want.
If this was just a bunch of stupid people it would be one thing, but it's not. It's a group of people who are using a tiny number of incidents to drive an agenda that is largely based on falsehoods. So, my disgust is not with the people who get caught up in the mob, it's the people who incite and manipulate people in order to advance a narrative.
So, as usual, feel free to portray my comments in any way that strikes your fancy with no regard for the actual truth of the matter. As to your condescending comments about how "your friends" in the black community blah, blah, blah. Do you realize how foolish it sounds to extrapolate your limited experience in a smallish southern city to any other context? I know you like to deal with people as part of groups rather than individuals, but this is absurd. You little conclave of liberal African Americans do not represent anyone beyond themselves. Given how prone you are to allow your prejudices to color your view of people, I would be shocked if your comments accurately reflect this group you refer to, but even if they do, there is no basis for you to extrapolate your limited experience beyond it's context. You do this frequently, and it's the worst sort of cherry picking anecdotes (which aren't really anecdotes as there is no verifiable detail to check), in order to make some overreaching statement of fact that you can't support.
I have to congratulate you for keeping two whole comments enough on the topic to avoid getting deleted.
However, if you make continue to dodge the questions you have been asked, any further comments will go away.
I give up. You all are just too blind to see it, I suppose. Ask your African American friends and let them explain it to you in person, their opinions on your words. You all just can't hear it from me.
So,
Your just going to ignore legitimate questions, challenges to your assertions, and just blame me for daring to allow my own circumstances drive my opinion rather than to blindly agree with you. Your assumption that you and your limited experiences are the sum total of the Truth about this is laughable, and you hubris is appalling. Your blind insistence that your limited parochial biased anecdotes have some universal bearing in the broader world is pathetic.
Your behavior here is just cowardly.
I know, I know, you answer 95% of all of the questions you are asked (or at least you sometimes , occasionally, might put forth the effort to try to do so), except most of the time when you don't. Which somehow always coincidence with answers that won't support your hunches, coincidence? I think not.
Although your last little comment is not on topic, I'm going to leave it as evidence of your unwillingness to answer questions.
Dan,
The problem is that your stock answer for everything is "You sound like a racist", the whole point of which is to derail any rational conversation.
"When I heard the president call for calm after the rioting started, I questioned his sincerity because some of his political strategy of divide and conquer fuels this sort of racial animosity between people,And so, I think when he called for calm after the rioting started, I believe it was done with a wink and a nod."
Once your done, answering the previously unanswered questions, you can pronounce your verdict on the above quote. Does it "sound racist"?
"Craig, it's your chance to step up and stop actually racist, patronizing language. Will you?"
Dan, it's your turn to step up and answer actual questions that you have been asked, will you?
Dan, since when are you the all knowing final judge of what language is racist and patronizing? What possible reason can you give me to uncritically accept your verdict?
If I may summarize your most likely answer.
"But, you just sound like racists"
Dan,
More and more often you sound virtually identical to many of the atheists I read.
I realize this is off topic, but It's my blog I can do what I want.
Earlier I was looking for liberal voices lamenting what we are seeing from Planned Parenthood, and I pointed out Camille Paglia as someone who had the courage to honestly speak her mind about this issue.
The link below is to another self described liberal who has the courage to question his own beliefs and liberal orthodoxy based on the PP videos. In the interest of fairness, I am posting the link to shoe that although there aren't many liberals with courage, there are a few and they deserve to be acknowledged.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/08/10/i-don-t-know-if-i-m-pro-choice-anymore.html
Dan,
I was quite clear that any comments that did not answer the questions I have asked you would be deleted. You, chose the course of more accusations and assertions of answers, and less actual answers.
"Ask your African American friends and let them explain it to you in person, their opinions on your words."
I work for a company contracted with the United States Postal Service. The facility at which I work daily is at least 90% black. I am far more subordinate to a black man or woman every day than I am to any other person of any other race. For the first four hours of my day, I work in tandem with a black dude. For the other eight hours, I am constantly dealing with black people directly or indirectly. I've developed friendships and acquaintances and have had discussions of all sorts with most of them. Some think like me. Some think like Dan. Some support these BLM people, as evidenced by their "I Can't Breathe" sweatshirts, and others see the Trayvon Martins, Michael Browns, Al Sharptons, rioters, knock-out gamers, rappers, etc., as that which makes the whole race look bad. I associate and converse with all of them.
Based on what Dan thinks discussions with our black friends will reveal, I'd wager that Dan associates with blacks that those I know would feel make the rest of them look bad.
I have no problem making my positions known when given the opportunity to do so. I've recently had a discussion with one younger dude regarding being stopped by cops. He could not say that he was treated poorly by the cop and I could not say that his being black had no part in why he was stopped in the first place. I want to say that his claim was that the cop said he "fit a description". I told him that in my youth, I had three incidents of being stopped and/or questioned based on the same excuse...in a white suburb by a white cop. I told him that we each had something in common...we were profiled. As a long-haired youth of the 70's, it wasn't a bad bet that someone who looked like me was stoned, about to get stoned or was in possession of some substance that would get me stoned. Maybe the cop was fishing. Maybe I actually looked like someone they were after. It sucked to be the victim of such an assumption, but as I chose to present myself as I did, I put myself in that position.
In the same way, I told my friend, cops do have legitimate reason to be suspicious of young black men, especially if they are in an area where they are not common, and if they dress in a particular manner (this guy doesn't really dress badly in my opinion). But as long as one is treated with some modicum of courtesy, it's merely the price of living in our society. It isn't my friend's fault that blacks are viewed with suspicion. But there is precedent these days. The reason given (racism) is no good anymore. That might have worked 50 years ago, but today, blacks who play the race card are riding on that which has dissipated over the years and are using it as an excuse.
cont...
I do indeed speak of these things in discussions that arise. Some won't buy it. Others totally agree and now and then say it themselves without provocation. Thus, I could never say that the entirety of the black race is stupid. But anyone who says their current state of affairs is the result of anything "state sanctioned" or the result of rampant racism is a liar and not very bright at all.
I invite both of you to visit AmericanThinker.com (listed at my blog) and search the list of contributors for one Colin Flaherty. He has an article posted within the last three or four days. He "specializes" on the myth of racism and highlights the many incidents of black misbehavior that is actually downplayed by the media. Stories (with many videos) of rioting, "wilding", flash mob thieving and vandalism that has no parallel with other racial groups. (The guy has a couple of books out and Col. Allen West cites him as a lone voice speaking the truth.)
And then, of course, one can review stats regarding crime and incarceration in order to help understand why the "Black Lives Matter" movement is fraudulent and their focus is so misplaced (if they even care at all).
I speak of these things when the opportunity arises and much of it isn't even known by some of those with whom I converse. In speaking to a few of the younger people, it is amazing how few have even heard of people like Thomas Sowell or Walter Williams. And of course, of those who support Obama, none can tell me anything specific he has ever done to warrant that support. (Very much like any other BO supporter of any race)
"You lie, Craig. I answered your question. I'm sorry you didn't understand, but I did answer your question."
If you had, I doubt that Craig would have deleted it, even if it accompanied other off-topic or whiny comments. It was a simple question. I think he should have allowed for TWO leading causes of death of black children.
"If you hadn't deleted it, anyone could see it and I could show it to you."
The very problem I have with you deleting MY comments at YOUR blog, Dan. Now perhaps you can see the folly of deleting comments at all simply because you don't like the answer.
cont...
I'm sure you are able to provide a quote supporting your assertion that I think blacks are "too damn dumb".
My complaint was about what you and Marshall said, the actual words from you two.
Marshall said...
I can't believe there are really that many black people who fall for this nonsense about cops targeting blacks.
The clear implication is that those black people are just stupid, they fall for this nonsense.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here's the problem with the above and it demonstrates the deceit inherent in Dan's style of discourse. Note the initial italicized comment above. It's from Craig and is in response to your earlier comment which is as follows:
"And when people like you two suggest that black people tend to be just too damn dumb to understand..."
The truth is more specific, and you later back-peddle to concede as much:
"The clear implication is that those black people are just stupid..."
The vast distinction is obvious. It's the difference between "black people" and "THOSE black people"...a distinct segment of the entire black population. As to the latter, they ARE stupid in, as I've stated, the same way as any other left-leaning person who supports the people and policies that have led to the state in which too many blacks now find themselves. That's not "racist". That's reality. To call it "racism" is to lie willfully and purposefully. Like with homosexuality, subverting and suppressing the truth is not hate or bigotry, but it IS patronizing to those who need to believe someone other than themselves is responsible for the state in which they find themselves.
"When you dismiss these concerns as "mob mentality" and "not waiting for facts" it makes it sound like you think black people tend to be too stupid or ignorant or swayed by "the mob" to make rational decisions."
But that's not only the truth, it's the very stance you took with regards to the Planned Parenthood allegations. Here, these people assume racist cops when the facts showed that the dead were killed due to THEIR actions, not racist intent of the cops. They did NOT wait for the facts, and worse, when the facts came out, they preferred to believe that some unproven "truth" was being covered up do to "institutionalized racism". But perhaps you're right. Perhaps it's NOT "stupid". Perhaps it's just pure evil.
To pretend that speaking the truth "sounds" racist is idiotic, hateful and projection of the worst kind. Where's that "grace" about which your pretend to care so much? The fact is that those of the black race who agree with me AREN'T stupid because what we both agree upon are the facts. It's really that simple. I can't help that you aren't Christian enough to deal in truth, facts and reality. The sorry part is that you help perpetuate the division between the races by your sorry perspective of the issue.
"As in the 90+% of black folk who vote Democratic, just THAT segment of black folk (ie, the vast majority)?"
Absolutely. But, as I included them in the larger group of left-leaning Democratic supporters, am I a racist, or is my position racist with regards to those left-leaning Democratic supporters who are NOT black?
I'm fully prepared to defend my position, and do so without fear. To support a party or ideology that has results so common to the Democrat party, one has to be stupid or self-loathing. The poor track record is too well known, to well documented for "mistaken" to be a more appropriate description. It's like Charlie Brown trusting that Lucy won't pull away the football. There's no reasonable expectation that things will be different if the results are consistently harmful. That's not "hate and venom and divisiveness" OR "arrogance". It's reality and I defy you to prove me wrong.
When you say "most people of a race are stupid," that is a racist comment, by definition. At the very least it is patronizing and arrogant.
Marshall, given a chance, would you like to tell the vast majority of African Americans how to live, so they can benefit from your genius? Would you like to tell them how to vote and why they're stupid for voting for Dems?
Dan,
No answers, no comments. It's that simple. Insisting that you've answered is not the same as actually answering.
And claiming, counter to the evidence, that I didn't answer is not the same as actually supporting the claim.
It's a lie, Craig. I assume it's from ignorance and blindness and you're not intentionally telling a lie, but a lie is factually what it is.
8/11@ 2:56
8/12 @ 8:36,9:20,2:49,11:38
That, is a list of comments containing unanswe questions.
So, now you've falsely accused me of lying and lied about your actions.
I guess there will be an apology and answers forthcoming soon.
On the subject of stupid.
It's stupid to engage in protests based on a false premise
It's stupid to engage in violence to protest violence
It's stupid to riot, loot, and burn things that belong to innocent people
It's stupid to loot and burn down businesses that are owned by hardworking average people who look just like you
It's stupid to shoot at a car full of police
It's stupid to reduce every issue to race or group politics instead of looking at individuals
It's stupid to bully Bernie Sanders in front of cameras
So, no one is saying that "all" of any group of people are stupid, but its clearly safe to say that there are plenty of people engaging in stupid actions.
So, now that the facts of your lies are exposed, I'm going to leave your false comment in place as evidence of your disregard for honesty and your willingness to quickly resort to unsupported accusations instead of admitting your mistakes.
I left your other comment intact for now because I don't want to assume that you've taken MA out of context or quoted him wrongly, so it stays until I have time to read all of those comments.
Again, no answers, no more comments.
Ran
Nowhere in MA's comments did I find the phrase you quoted. "Most people of a race are stupid". If you are going to claim to quote people, you should really make the effort to actually use their own actual literal words. Doing otherwise means it is not a quote. Is it an intentional lie, I don't know. But its not a quote, and therefore just one more false statement by you. Maybe you should avoid making claims that are so easily checked and shown to be false.
Feel free to provide an actual linked quote to prove me wrong.
So, the one question you "answered" you got wrong, then instead of answering the questions you were directly and specifically asked, you chose something else, do you really think that you can continue to ignore direct questions and stall like this without consequence. I even had the grace to help you by pointing out where you could find the direct questions, yet you ignored that.
No answers, no comments.
Off topic, no answers 0 for 2
Dan,
Perhaps you are unaware that the term questions is plural. The fact that you answered one does not excuse you from answering the rest.
Your continued pretending and dodging is becoming tedious.
I'll try this one more time. No answers, no comments.
Best number I found is about 8000 black people die from homicide per year. That's a drop in the bucket compared to the black children killed by abortion.
Do you understand that I quite clearly set out some expectations that apply to you commenting on this thread. Do you also understand that as long as you attempt to impose your preferences on this thread the more you will get deleted. Continuing to level false charges does not help your cause, neither does making off topic comments in order to dodge the questions you've ignored.
If you can provide an actual (as opposed to your previous made up) quote that demonstrate that your claims have merit. Simply making assertions does not make it so.
So, once again.
No answers, no comments.
It's not that hard, you are just choosing to be difficult.
It's a medical procedure that kills over 300,00 black children per year.
As to the rest of your BS I told you what needed to happen, you think that you are somehow able to dictate how things will go. The fact that you are unable to grasp these simple facts, then I'm more convinced that idiotiotic was not an inaccurate way to describe your behavior.
This is all about your refusal to accept that you can't dictate how this goes. So you can play be the rules or not.
"When you say "most people of a race are stupid," that is a racist comment, by definition."
Nonsense. By definition it's still a mere statement of reality. Their race has nothing to do with it. Their attitude does. If it just so happens that even absolutely all of one race are doing the same stupid thing, if every black person in the nation does it, to say it is stupid is not racist at all. BUT, race-baiters will insist it is because they need to demonize those who recognize the stupidity of the action, which puts the blame for their problems at their own feet...which they do not want to accept. Thus, you saying my comment is racist, or even might sound racist to others undoubtedly like yourself, makes you an enabler of those who do stupid things. You must be proud.
"At the very least it is patronizing and arrogant."
Not in the least, no matter how badly you want and need it to be.
"Marshall, given a chance, would you like to tell the vast majority of African Americans how to live, so they can benefit from your genius? Would you like to tell them how to vote and why they're stupid for voting for Dems?"
Yes, and yes...given the chance. I'm up for telling anyone, regardless of their race. That's pretty much what spreading the Word is...telling others how they should live. Heck, even if you just do it by example you'd still be "telling them" how they should live. And BTW, it's not "genius"...it's common sense. God's the genius. I'm just spreading the Word.
"I am able to dictate how I will conduct conversations..."
But you don't have the authorization to do it here. Only at your own blog. Here, you must abide Craig's rules, just as you demand I do at your blog. He's not doing anything to you here that you aren't doing to me there.
Thank you Dan for clarifying your belief that you are able to "dictate" how conversations will be conducted. Thank you even more for so thoroughly illustrating the fact that you do not behave according to the standards you demand of others and at your blog.
So, feel free to continue to cast aspersions, make off topic comments, and dodge questions. Just know that it's a waste of your time, and that the responsibility for the lack of conversation rest on your unwillingness to play by the rules.
Just because I may not agree with MA, he is well within his rights to express himself to whomever he wants however he wants, that isn't racist by any reasonable measures. But please keep demanding that I do what you tell me, because I'm sure you're going to jump when I tell you to do something at your blog.
Let's not forget (speaking of you double standards) that you gave your buddies plenty of room to spew lies and attacks before making a tepid attempt to control things.
Let's also remember, that my response was not to call you out publicly, but to try to reason with you privately via e mai. You, again, choose a different but I'm sure more grace filled path.
Dan,
I have made no more false claims than you. You said in your own words that you would dictate how the conversation would go.
But enough of your crap.
If you don't have the courage and integrity to answer the questions asked of you, then take your false cries of racist this, that and the other thing and stop wasting everyone's time.
I know the concept of consistency is one your not used to, but I'm going to stay consistent and keep saying no answers, no comments.
Inconsistensty and double standard, thy name is Dan.
95% what a huge load of crap.
I thought it would be interesting to have Dan watch this 4:23 minute vid, and see someone refer to black people as stupid. His reaction would be interesting I'm sure.
Once again, we see that Dan will do what he doesn't like done to him. I've had yet another comment deleted on the pretense that wondering whether he is retarded or evil for continually misrepresenting my position in a manner that justifies calling it irrational and immoral is an insult to those who are actually retarded. I reject this false outrage and he is no champion of the mentally retarded in pretending he is outraged. He refers to them as "mentally deficient" or having a "mental deficit". How is it any better simply wondering if he's an idiot, considering that word at one time was a clinical term? Is it less insulting to the "mentally deficient" to wonder if Dan is "mentally deficient" as opposed to a "retard"? They're the same thing. Indeed, wondering if he's stupid, or calling him stupid is no better. He just loves to admonish those who disagree with him and will take any opportunity to avoid the issue to do so.
Dan,
You last deleted comment illustrates perfectly why I feel it necessary to limit your ability to comment. Here's why.
1. It is 100% completely off the topic of this post.
2. It intentionally misrepresents my position about Planned Parenthood.
3. It attempts to infer that because there has been a particular outcome in a small number of instances, that therefore the same outcome is destined for all similar cases.
But you correct your falsehoods.
1. I find abortion in general to be disgusting and the ultimate injustice to "the least of these".
2. I find PP's origins in the eugenics movement, (The founder wanted to get rid of black folks), with emphasis on race to be abhorrent.
3. I find PP's unwillingness to distance themselves from this vile racist past strange and puzzling.
4. I watch the videos, and read the transcripts of what can only be described as the harvesting and sale of human body parts to be unconscionable.
5. I am especially appalled at the fact that there is an intentional altering of the abortion procedure in order to increase the access to salable body parts.
6. I find it disturbing that our federal government engages in corporate welfare to the tune of half a billion dollars to subsidize this.
7. I am pleased to see that the "it's only a clump of cells" argument has been so thoroughly and completely been demonstrated for the lie it is.
Having said all of that, all I have suggested is that the various governmental entities involved fully and completely investigate the incidents clearly shown on the videos, and to follow the facts of the matter where they go, and to impose punishment as warranted.
I realize that is completely unreasonable on so many levels, compared to what folks have done and threatened to do to the lion shooting dentist, my position is downright barbaric.
The problem I pointed out in the post which was actually about this topic, is the fact that the vast majority of the American political left (including you) is willing to ignore the video evidence that is staring them in the face and continue to shill for PP in specific and for as few restrictions on abortion as possible.
Now, because I am unfair and unreasonable, I did post comments from liberals who find this situation as disturbing and disgusting as I do. I applaud them.
Unfortunately, you are content to misrepresent, my views all while engaging in the very thing for which you demonize me.
So, in instances where I see rampant and unapologetic hypocrisy on the left I will call it out. I've never been shy about calling out folks on the right when they do stupid things, why should the left be any different?
If you want to continue your defense of what we see on the videos, then at least have the common courtesy to do it in a thread where it will be on topic.
Any further off topic comments will be deleted, and ignored.
“ If black lives really mattered, so would black behavior. High school dropout rates (8% ), incarceration rates(2,200 per 100,000) and teenage pregnancy rates (39 per 1000) are factors affecting black lives over which the black community has a great deal of control. A huge change alone would be made in terms of black wealth and welfare if births within wedlock increased by a mere 10 percent. “
“ The 2014 documentary 72 Percent, produced by Moguldom Studios, sheds an unflinching light on the epidemic of African-American children born to single-parent households. It explores the fact that black activists have largely rejected the criticism leveled by members of the intellectual class, such as Dr. Ben Carson, President Barack Obama and Bill Cosby, that black fathers are inexcusably absent from the lives of their children.”
“ If black lives really mattered, perhaps it would behoove activists to think globally about which cultural shifts would actually help to increase black labor-force participation. The first priority would be a cultural shift in the emphasis on education. “
“Exactly. A dirty little secret liberals don't want black people to know is this: You have the power to change your own life. You can make good decisions. You can embrace good habits. You can expect more of yourself and hold yourself to the standards that will allows you to achieve the things that elevate your life. No politician can stop you. No artistocrat can rig the game against you.”
“If black lives really mattered to these people, they would teach these lessons as a way of empowering black people to get more out of their own lives, and to do more for their families. When black lives only matter when they're convenient to make a politcal point, or to attack the police, then they don't really matter at all.
""When I heard the president call for calm after the rioting started, I questioned his sincerity because some of his political strategy of divide and conquer fuels this sort of racial animosity between people,And so, I think when he called for calm after the rioting started, I believe it was done with a wink and a nod."
Above we have some comments which would probably be considered racist.
The problem with BLM is that they are a single issue interest group which is so focused on trying to perpetuate a narrative, that they have to embrace and trumpet things that are false on order to fit the narrative.
This is the problem with groups (mostly liberal, but not always) that think that simply re tweeting a hashtag is actually taking meaningful action.
It's not, it's a cheap and easy way to make people feel good and pretend like they are a part of some great movement.
If people want black lives to matter, how about the focus on any of the following all of which have a greater negative effect of the overall community than the handful of unjustified police shootings.
1. The centrality of the intact nuclear family.
2. The importance of education.
3. The importance of staying away from drugs and alcohol.
4. The importance of avoiding unwed motherhood.
5. Access to stable affordable housing.
IF these folks seriously invested a modicum of time an effort into any of the above, it would would not only make black lives better, it would make for stronger communities as well.
It's easy to get worked up and tweet about something that happens so rarely so as to be a statistical non event. It's easy to go "protest" at a busy mall or shut down a freeway. It's easy to re tweet some slogan. Hell, it's easy to riot, burn, and loot from hardworking people of the same race.
It's hard to tutor kids. It's hard to stay clean and sober. It's hard to not get your girlfriend pregnant and stay around and take responsibility. It's hard to stay married when things aren't going well. It's hard to take an entry level job and work your way up the ladder.
As long as these folks are willing to take the easier path, it is difficult to take them seriously.
Obviously, there are folks who are doing the hard work and I don't want to slight them.
"Obviously, there are folks who are doing the hard work and I don't want to slight them."
I hate the fact that the above statement is necessary in order to prevent people like Dan from suggesting we're demonizing an entire race. It is clear to honest people who honestly care about the issue that the focus is on that which perpetuates the problems about which race-baiting activists claim to care.
MA,
yes it is. Of course it's easier to make false accusations than it is to deal with what we've actually said. It's easier to say "You think all blacks..." or "You sound racist" that it is to acknowledge that there are a bunch of people who are acting in a stupid manner and who are hurting their cause, while white guilt ridden liberals make excuses for behavior for which there really is no good excuse. It's easier to treat people as groups (the larger and more general the better) than it is to deal with people as individuals or smaller groups.
I know we all make generalizations, but to make the leap from "these people (many of whom happen to be black) are doing stupid things to "all black people are stupid, is both lazy and dishonest.
This table can be used for a number of interesting calculations. First, we find that during the 2012/2013 period, blacks committed an average of 560,600 violent crimes against whites, whereas whites committed only 99,403 such crimes against blacks. This means blacks were the attackers in 84.9 percent of the violent crimes involving blacks and whites. This figure is consistent with reports from 2008, the last year DOJ released similar statistics. Perhaps not coincidentally, that was the year Mr. Obama was elected president.
Interestingly, we find that violent interracial crime involving blacks and Hispanics occurs in almost exactly the same proportions as black/white crime: Blacks are the attackers 82.5 percent of the time, while Hispanics are attackers only 17.5 percent of the time.
Some actual statistics may shed some light. http://www.amren.com/news/2015/07/new-doj-statistics-on-race-and-violent-crime/
Gentry said that every presidential candidate should challenge the Black Lives Matter movement. He said that 2016 contenders should ask the group, “Why are you not cleaning up your own community if black lives matter?”
The minister asked: Where was Black Lives Matter in Chicago, in Baltimore and in Ferguson when 9-year-old Jamyla Bolden was shot to death in her own home?
He charged Black Lives Matter with wanting to “protest for thugs,” but said the group is “nowhere to be found in their own communities.”
Gentry said that candidates shouldn’t fear the “superficial, shallow movement.”
“They are cookies with no milk, Lamborghini with no 12-cylinder engine,” he said.
Jonathan Gentry, what a racist sounding hate filled person.
He said that 2016 contenders should ask the group, “Why are you not cleaning up your own community if black lives matter?”
Yes, Craig, why DON'T "those people" do something? Are they lazy, do you think? Stupid? Evil? What's wrong with "those blacks..."?
Do you not see why this sounds patronizing, if not racist?
So, it is your contention that the gentleman who made the quoted comments is racust, correct?
Dan,
My use of quotes from other people, seems to confuse you into thinking I am quoting myself.
The question, though, seems a valid one given the actual statistics regarding what racial group kills the highest number of black folks.
Do I know the motivations of every single member of BLM, nope, never claimed to. Do I know the history of the local "leaders" of BLM, yes. Is it reasonable to draw some general conclusions based on the actions of people, sure.
The problem with this line of inquiry on your part, is it ignores the fact that I have tried to engage you (by asking questions) on these kinds of things, yet you have chosen to ignore those questions and go in a different direction.
Despite your patronizing and condescending tone, the quoted question is valid. Why don't the folks who have organized all this outrage focus on their own community first? To put it in Biblical terms, why do the ignore the log in their own eye, while focusing on the splinter in someone else's eye. Before you get all pissy, I would suggest that if thousands of black folks are killed by other black folks while white cops have less than 100 unjustified killings of black folks that there is a bit of an imbalance, and makes the "log/speck" metaphor justified.
So, is the gentleman who asked the question you object to racist? Why would you assume that the question is an indictment of "all blacks" as opposed to the "leaders" of the BLM?
The question is based on ignorance and a false premise. That is, "IF I am unaware of "these people" doing something I approve of in their neighborhoods to make things better, then they are not doing anything."
It is a presumptuous and ignorance-based presumption.
What are people doing to make things better in their neighborhoods? Here, Craig, is a list of things that people I know are doing...
1. Raising their children the best they can to be good human beings
2. Teaching Sunday School, to teach one another about Jesus' ways
3. Working in their neighborhoods as teachers, mechanics, preachers, janitors, care providers, nurses, lawn care providers, community organizers, union members, union organizers, etc
4. Working with youth at after school projects
5. Advocating for more and better education for children
6. Investing in their neighborhoods, buying locally
7. Walking and busing (ie, being out there on their streets, getting to know people, being aware of problem spots)
8. Looking after their elderly parents and grandparents
9. Looking after the disabled and displaced
10. Working with homeless folk
11. Working with mentally ill folk
12. Working with unemployed folk
13. Working with ex-cons
14. Working with drug addicts
15. Advocating for work opportunities for ex-cons
16. Working to end the hellacious "drug war" which has marginalized so many people
17. Working to stop crack houses
18. Participating in neighborhood watches
19. Advocating for policy changes that makes it easier for ex-cons to get jobs
20. Visiting prisoners in jail/writing them letters
How long a list do you want, Craig? Are you saying that you are not familiar with the idea that folk in urban communities do all these things and hundreds more on a regular basis to make their communities better, safer, stronger?
That, in addition to these sorts of things, they also do the crazyradical thing of recognizing the real world problems of police abuse and have the audacity to point out this reality and expect change, does not in any way take away from these other things they do.
Craig, do you really think that all BLM supporters are out there doing nothing, except maybe being lazy and getting high?
If so, what does that say about you?
Dan,
I asked you a simple direct question. "So, it is your contention that the gentleman who made the quoted comments is racist, correct?"
Strangely enough you chose not to answer it, nor did you answer this one. "Why would you assume that the question is an indictment of "all blacks" as opposed to the "leaders" of the BLM?"
For now, I will leave your strange response that doesn't really relate to anything but your parading your prejudices.
It's simple, answer or not, but if you can't answer 2 simple direct questions (Setting aside for the moment the multitude you've dodged), or your done.
It's simple and reasonable.
No, it is not my contention. If you read my words, you will see that there is no such claim.
My contention is that this line of thinking is patronizing and presumptuous.
The problem, as it relates to race, is when you make a sweeping generalization about these people, or say black folk TEND to be stupid or foolish or lazy or whatever, that sort of language sounds racist. It is complicated when such presumptuous and patronizing language is coming from a white man. This is exactly the sort of phrases my openly racist relatives and friends used to employ back in the 1970s, when racism was more prevalent and overt.
If, like Marshall, you are saying things like (not his exact words, but I think this is the gist of his point), "I'm not racist, I don't have a problem with black people specifically. However, most black people - the 90%+ who vote for Democrats - ARE stupid..." THAT comes across as a racist slam, and it is exactly the sort of language that racists do use. Now, certainly there are black folk who will call for responsibility amongst their neighbors and they may use some of the same language, but there is a difference of context, there. And context is important.
It's the difference between a black fella greeting a friend with the "N" word and a white person using the same word. Context is important.
Dan,
First, I asked for a simple answer to two questions, you decided not to provide them.
Second, Your problem is that I have NOT made any sort of sweeping generalizations about any entire race, for your to suggest otherwise is flat out false.
Third, even though I've pointed this out to you, you seen either unwilling or unable to grasp the concept that the quote that has you so bothered is just that, a quote. In other words those are NOT my words, they are the words of someone else.
The problem is that you assumptions have done you in once more.
So, two simple direct questions, how about two simple direct answers.
Your question:
"So, it is your contention that the gentleman who made the quoted comments is racist, correct?"
My DIRECT answer:
No, it is not my contention. If you read my words, you will see that there is no such claim.
My contention is that this line of thinking is patronizing and presumptuous.
A direct answer, I don't know how much more clearly I can say it than NO.
One of your other questions...
"Why don't the folks who have organized all this outrage focus on their own community first?"
I answered this directly by pointing out that it's a false premise. People involved in BLM are doing all manner of things in their own community and it's slanderous to suggest that they're not. Your ignorance of what people are doing is not an indication that they are not doing anything. Your presumption that they are not doing anything is arrogant, at best and perhaps race-based, at worst. It is EXACTLY the sort of language/charge that white racists have routinely made and people recognize the language. Now, I don't believe you are racist and I have never said you are racist. What I've said is these sorts of phrases SOUND racist, they are the sort of words that racists do use and you'd be wiser to adopt a more humble, less presumptuous and patronizing tone of voice if you don't want to sound racist.
Do you want to sound racist?
Third, even though I've pointed this out to you, you seen either unwilling or unable to grasp the concept that the quote that has you so bothered is just that, a quote. In other words those are NOT my words, they are the words of someone else.
Well, since I NEVER SAID THEY WERE YOUR WORDS and I fully recognize that they were quotes, why would I belabor the point?
The problem is that you assumptions have done you in once more.
YOU are the one making an assumption. Again, I never said they were your words, they were quotes, what of it?
So, two simple direct questions, how about two simple direct answers.
I've answered your questions, by and large. How about YOU taking a turn? For instance, this stupid/ignorant/false claim...
The problem with BLM is that they are a single issue interest group which is so focused on trying to perpetuate a narrative, that they have to embrace and trumpet things that are false on order to fit the narrative.
They are? Their intent is to perpetuate a false narrative? That's a pretty serious charge, do you have ANY data to support that claim? How about the intimation that people who support BLM are not doing anything already in their community? Can you cite even ONE person you know well enough to prove that they are not doing anything already in their community?
If not, are you prepared to back down on these patronizing and slanderous charges that are easily demonstrated to be false?
"So, is the gentleman who asked the question you object to racist? Why would you assume that the question is an indictment of "all blacks" as opposed to the "leaders" of the BLM?"
Again, the above is the second question I referred to, which you dodged.
From what I could sift through in your marginally responsive responses, It seems as though you are saying that if a white person was to have made those comments they would be racist, but that in another context they might be appropriate. Can you confirm that I have the gist of your point?
“Why are you not cleaning up your own community if black lives matter?”
The minister asked: Where was Black Lives Matter in Chicago, in Baltimore and in Ferguson when 9-year-old Jamyla Bolden was shot to death in her own home?
He charged Black Lives Matter with wanting to “protest for thugs,” but said the group is “nowhere to be found in their own communities.”
Gentry said that candidates shouldn’t fear the “superficial, shallow movement.”
“They are cookies with no milk, Lamborghini with no 12-cylinder engine,” he said.
“ If black lives really mattered, so would black behavior. High school dropout rates (8% ), incarceration rates(2,200 per 100,000) and teenage pregnancy rates (39 per 1000) are factors affecting black lives over which the black community has a great deal of control. A huge change alone would be made in terms of black wealth and welfare if births within wedlock increased by a mere 10 percent. “
“ The 2014 documentary 72 Percent, produced by Moguldom Studios, sheds an unflinching light on the epidemic of African-American children born to single-parent households. It explores the fact that black activists have largely rejected the criticism leveled by members of the intellectual class, such as Dr. Ben Carson, President Barack Obama and Bill Cosby, that black fathers are inexcusably absent from the lives of their children.”
“ If black lives really mattered, perhaps it would behoove activists to think globally about which cultural shifts would actually help to increase black labor-force."participation. The first priority would be a cultural shift in the emphasis on education. “
"When I heard the president call for calm after the rioting started, I questioned his sincerity because some of his political strategy of divide and conquer fuels this sort of racial animosity between people,And so, I think when he called for calm after the rioting started, I believe it was done with a wink and a nod."
“Exactly. A dirty little secret liberals don't want black people to know is this: You have the power to change your own life. You can make good decisions. You can embrace good habits. You can expect more of yourself and hold yourself to the standards that will allows you to achieve the things that elevate your life. No politician can stop you. No artistocrat can rig the game against you.”
“If black lives really mattered to these people, they would teach these lessons as a way of empowering black people to get more out of their own lives, and to do more for their families. When black lives only matter when they're convenient to make a politcal point, or to attack the police, then they don't really matter at all.
""When I heard the president call for calm after the rioting started, I questioned his sincerity because some of his political strategy of divide and conquer fuels this sort of racial animosity between people,And so, I think when he called for calm after the rioting started, I believe it was done with a wink and a nod."
OK, I've corralled the quotes that you seem to believe are racist in one location. So, (this is a yes or no question) do the above quotes represent a racist attitude?
"How about YOU taking a turn?"
I've got the response written and ready to post. As soon as you can provide a "Yes, the above quotes are racist" or "No, the above quotes are not racist" answer and answer the previously dodged question in the comment above.
Seriously,
I copy/pasted the questions you continue to dodge, and you pretend otherwise, then you ask a question I didn't ask.
You have one more chance, to get this right.
So, your response is to dodge questions long enough that you can claim that your refusal to answer is somehow my fault. Not a new tactic, not a surprising tactic, but pretty much what I expected.
I showed you grace and gave you the opportunity to redeem yourself after your earlier question dodging and off topic comments, yet you just can't (or more likely won't) do it.
So, your response is to dodge questions long enough that you can claim that your refusal to answer is somehow my fault. Not a new tactic, not a surprising tactic, but pretty much what I expected.
"Talk like a respectful, mature adult or fuss like a child? Your call."
I showed you grace and gave you the opportunity to redeem yourself after your earlier question dodging and off topic comments, yet you just can't (or more likely won't) do it. You just continue to demand things.
It's disappointing, but not unexpected.
"Do you not see why this sounds patronizing, if not racist?"
So, when you said the above, you actually meant the opposite.
Look, either you think the quotes I listed are racist (as your words indicate) as well as patronizing or you don't. The fact that you just can't come out and be direct is interesting.
Are you ready to deal with what I actually said about PP, rather than what you think I said?
Are you ready to start making comments on topic and answering questions?
Are you ready to understand that, an incomplete investigation is not conclusive?
Back on topic, you seem to object to my referring to BLM as a single issue group, yet the 10 point list of things that BLM wants changed all focus on a single issue. I guess your disagreement is with BLM, not with me.
Back on topic, you seem to object to my referring to BLM as a single issue group, yet the 10 point list of things that BLM wants changed all focus on a single issue. I guess your disagreement is with BLM, not with me.
You are the one who responded "They are?", when I first brought it up, so your disagreement is with you, not me.
The problem with your rule, is that is doesn't exain away your own quoted words. Nor does it help that you tend to word your positions in such a way as to allow you to claim whatever side of the issue is most helpful to you in the moment, rather than with an eye for consistency.
So, either answer the questions you've been dodging or troll yourself right on out of here.
The assumption you object to is one of your own making. I've never even hinted at your made up version of what you want me to have said. Once again you are arguing with yourself, not with me. You are also making assumptions about what folks involved in BLM may or may not do, but you've never let that stop you before.
How many of the looters and arsonists, do you think spend time tutoring children when they are free?
For your edification, my problem is not the fact that they are a single issue group, it's that they've decided to choose an issue that is going to affect such a miniscule % of the population and one where they think they can blame others.
Craig...
You are the one who responded "They are?", when I first brought it up, so your disagreement is with you, not me
In context, my response to you was this...
They are? Their intent is to perpetuate a false narrative? That's a pretty serious charge, do you have ANY data to support that claim? How about the intimation that people who support BLM are not doing anything already in their community? Can you cite even ONE person you know well enough to prove that they are not doing anything already in their community?
What I was speaking about was about the PEOPLE in general who support BLM, not the organization themselves. Do you see that this was what I was speaking about? Of course, an organization might have one goal, that is as it should be... an organization can't take on ALL the topics in the world and be an effective organization. This is a point which you appear to agree with.
My "They ARE?" quote was in response to THIS line of reasoning from you...
If people want black lives to matter, how about the focus on any of the following all of which have a greater negative effect of the overall community than the handful of unjustified police shootings...
[you offer a list of things YOU THINK these people should be doing... then...]
IF these folks seriously invested a modicum of time an effort into any of the above, it would would not only make black lives better, it would make for stronger communities as well.
YOUR WORDS. You were complaining that "these folks" were not doing these other things that, IN YOUR OPINION, are "better" things to focus on, implying that they are not doing them.
Your problem is not with my words, but with your own.
Do you see your error now and are you prepared to admitting your mistake and quit trying to push your mistake off on me?
So, you chose to assume I was talking about something other than the official public position of BLM as an organization, and to rant on and on about that instead of asking for clarification.
FYI, all the racist, patronizing quotes that offend you so, all from black people.
It's funny, that when I tried to raise some of these things earlier in the thread by asking questions, you dodged and ignored them. Now, all of a sudden, you want to go steer things while pretending that this is new territory.
And, I do stand by my contention that putting the effort into helping thousands of black kids get a good education, and good jobs will have a much more expontial positive effect on communities than protesting, rioting, looting, and bullying over some thug who got shot ever will.
And you are welcome to your opinions. I prefer to let people in the place and on the ground make those sorts of calls for themselves, rather than presuming to tell them how they could better spend their time.
you chose to assume I was talking about something other than the official public position of BLM as an organization, and to rant on and on about that instead of asking for clarification.
Yes, when you made THIS statement...
IF these folks seriously invested a modicum of time an effort into any of the above, it would would not only make black lives better, it would make for stronger communities as well.
You implied (or stated directly?) that "thse folks" being the people who are working with/supporting BLM are not doing other things as well, and you did so from a place of total ignorance and almost certainly total and complete error.
Are you now prepared to provide data that EVEN ONE person associated somehow with BLM is doing entirely nothing else to make their communities better? Or, are you now prepared that you were speaking presumptuously.
Again, don't blame me for taking you at your word.
Ironic, you read into my words things I didn't say and are surprised to find out you were completely mistaken about my actual position (or, actually, you ignore that you were completely mistaken about my actual position), but when I take your words literally for what they say, you don't like that, either.
Dan,
To clarify once more when I refer to "these folks" I was referring to the BLM organization and to the leadership thereof.
I guess you can continue to tell me what I meant, or you can move on.
See, now, here's your current problem. When you trolled through my comments in order to decide that you know better than I what I meant by "these folks", you only took enough out of context to support your straw man. Unfortunately, had you chosen to read the ENTIRE comment, you would have been able to avoid your misunderstanding. In context, my point was that it is easier to do what BLM is doing (gin up a # and some riots) than to do the hard work of community development. But after making that (valid) point, I quite clearly said; "Obviously, there are folks who are doing the hard work and I don't want to slight them.". SO, had you actually looked at the context, you could have saved yourself a vast amount of misunderstanding. I know it's easier to put words in my mouth, it's just not accurate.
"I prefer to let people in the place and on the ground make those sorts of calls for themselves, rather than presuming to tell them how they could better spend their time."
How magnanimous of you. The problem with your faux pious condescension is that all I am doing is expressing what a number of people of all races who live in these communities are saying. So, yes, by all means lets listen to ALL of the voices, not just the loudest and rudest.
So, provide the data, Craig, that even for "these folks" meaning the few in leadership at BLM, that they are not doing anything that you deign productive or helpful in their neighborhoods.
Or retract the false and presumptuous claim.
Or, to repeat my original set of questions:
They are? Their intent is to perpetuate a false narrative? That's a pretty serious charge, do you have ANY data to support that claim? How about the intimation that people who support BLM are not doing anything already in their community? Can you cite even ONE person you know well enough to prove that they are not doing anything already in their community?
Well?
BLM just issued a 10 point manifesto all 10 of which are focused on one single issue. In an earlier comment you made the point that since they were a single issue group there is no reason to expect them to be involved in other issues beyond their single issue. So, even though I agreed with your premise, you now to after me for the very thing you agreed with me on.
Speaking of presumptuous, do you seriously expect me to follow your demand that I answer your questions while so many of mine remain dodged.
Actually, I have answered those questions, so I guess your extra presumptuous.
https://video.search.yahoo.com/video/play;_ylt=A2KLqIIS2dxVOwkAPmgsnIlQ;_ylu=X3oDMTByZWc0dGJtBHNlYwNzcgRzbGsDdmlkBHZ0aWQDBGdwb3MDMQ--?p=Peggy+Hubbard&vid=1945f2e598c24a6bc210e0da3da7741e&turl=http%3A%2F%2Ftse1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DVS.349864927584%26pid%3D15.1%26h%3D360%26w%3D480%26c%3D7%26rs%3D1&rurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DdG7mZQvaQDk&tit=Peggy+Hubbard+talks+about+Ferguson+and+Protests&c=0&h=360&w=480&l=377&sigr=11bs64mvj&sigt=11fmo88fb&sigi=12bcn8sji&age=1440107914&fr2=p%3As%2Cv%3Av&fr=yhs-mozilla-001&hsimp=yhs-001&hspart=mozilla&tt=b
Dan,
You claim we should listen to the people in the affected communities, so listen.
You have never ever given any indication that you have ever listened to or read anything that anyone has ever linked for you, but this is one you might want to invest 7 minutes in.
The woman in this video has more credibility on this issue than you could ever hope to have.
So, I'll put it this way, WHAT SHE SAID.
Please, once again, slink away it's exactly what we expect from you by now. Dodge, obfuscate, demand, and run. No surprises here.
Just Google Peggy Hubbard video, if you have more courage than you've shown so far.
Ah...now that I've returned home, I can address some of what I see here:
"If, like Marshall, you are saying things like (not his exact words, but I think this is the gist of his point), "I'm not racist, I don't have a problem with black people specifically. However, most black people - the 90%+ who vote for Democrats - ARE stupid..." THAT comes across as a racist slam, and it is exactly the sort of language that racists do use."
Dan dares speak of context. With the above, he shows he cares little for it if he needs something to justify his poor attitude regarding his debate opponents. Look at the quote there that is an alleged paraphrase of my position. Note how it does not accurately reflect my position, which was clarified over and over again. I'll do so again now:
The 90% of blacks who vote for Democrats are stupid. This is not a racist statement, but a statement of reality given how badly blacks have suffered under Democrat leadership and Democrat policies. To continue putting these people in office is a sign of either complete stupidity or abject insanity (doing the same thing over and over again while expecting a different result).
It is also not a racist statement or position given the fact that I followed up by saying that ANYONE who votes Democrat is ALSO stupid for doing so. But Dan doesn't care why I said it, or what I mean by having said it. He only knows that it allows him the opportunity (a very poor one) to further demonize his opponents. "Don't you know how racist that sounds (or "patronizing" or whatever)"? It doesn't even sound so to Dan. Normal people would ask what is meant by it or why it is believed to be true. It can only be evil intent on Dan's part...or something else.
You know, it really doesn't matter what language racists use. I could say that Dan is a Christian because he uses similar language a Christian uses. So do members of the Westboro Baptist Church. The wicked use the language of the good to fool the stupid, or to rationalize or justify their wickedness.
"Their intent is to perpetuate a false narrative? That's a pretty serious charge, do you have ANY data to support that claim?"
Yes. Easily accessible data from law enforcement and the CDC. The false narrative that the BLMers perpetuate is that blacks are being routinely and unjustifiably killed by cops purely for being black. A closer look at who is being killed and in what context proves the narrative is false.
Peggy Hubbard is clearly a racist...she's a self-loathing black woman who wants to be white. That's the only possible explanation for her video. It can't be that she sees through the crap of the BLM people and other defenders of thuggish behavior by certain black people.
OK, now that my sarcasm is noted, after watching the video, there was the typical dozen other video options, some related, others not, that appear on the screen. I watched one from Hannity where he interviews a protester, goes to a reporter on the scene who interviews another person, and we can clearly see that the facts don't matter as much to some people as the narrative to which they want and need so much to believe, as that narrative is easier to believe than to acknowledge their own shortcomings.
In yet another video, this one from a segment of O'Reilly, Bill interviews two people, one of whom is Alphonzo Rachel, who has a similar perspective to the Peggy Hubbard. The other dude assumes Eric Holder's Justice Dept. didn't do their job in investigating the Fergusson incident and coming to the same conclusion as local investigators did in absolving the cop of guilt in the shooting of Michael Brown. It's amazing how some will simply believe what they want to believe despite the facts.
Kinda reminds me of Dan.
MA,
I think you've headed into interesting territory on this issue, territory I tried to get Dan into much earlier with some of the questions I asked. While I would not agree with your characterization of black people who vote Democrat as "stupid", I agree that for any demographic group to vote for a party that has not benefit them does seem to be stupid behavior.
What gets buried in all this BLM stuff is that the cities where the kinds of events that get these folks worked up, as well as the cities with high murder/other crime rates and schools that under serve the black community, are virtually all controlled by Democrats. The natural question that arises is , "How involved are the BLM folks (both leadership as well as rank and file) in politics in these cities/counties?".
If they are highly involved, and have supported/voted for the people in power then it seems that they've gotten the government that they want/deserve.
If they are not involved, then don't they bear some responsibility through their inaction for the local government?
Obviously, I could get more nuanced or detailed in how and why I describe black Democratic voters as stupid. But why bother? The result is the same. Supporting those who have played such a integral part in creating the atmosphere for failure within the black community is stupidity on steroids. It's not as if the dots cannot easily be connected.
But to be fair, I feel the same of anyone who votes Democrat regardless of race, creed, religion, gender or ethnicity. But as this post revolves around what is happening in the black community, I see no reason to worry about people like Dan suggesting I'm racist or that I sound racist. The charge is simply...stupid.
Motives don't matter. Good intentions don't matter. The Democratic Party has never been a friend to the black community. The black community has never found relief for their concerns in the Democratic Party. Anyone who claims to care about the black community would warn them about supporting the Democratic Party. Supporting the Democratic Party is stupid.
And while the Republican Party has its flaws, the most egregious, and likely the source of their issues, is the notion that appeasing those who would otherwise support the Democrats is a good idea. The failures of the GOP is the result of implementing leftist type policies and the support of candidates that stray from solid conservative principles, principles that would do wonders for the black community if their leaders would spend less time looking to place the blame for their woes on "racists".
I don't know if Dan is still watching this, but there are a couple of things to add.
1. I don't see how anyone can not think that the :Cops are killing our kids", and "Cops are bad rhetoric of the BLM folks and those associated with them are not related to the brutal killing of a sheriff's deputy in Texas.
2. Last Saturday, the local BLM chapter held a march to protest the fact that blacks are underrepresented at the State Fair. This is after that State Fair folks basically gave into them and offered them space. Nonetheless these couple of hundred folks violated the law (marching up the middle of a main thoroughfare, blocking traffic), surrounded by the police (who were escorting them in their breaking of the law), all the while chanting this; "Pigs in a blanket, fry 'em like bacon".
I'm sure Dan can somehow rationalize this into a justifiable rational response to slavery, (In a state where slavery was never practiced. With the probable exception of the native tribes way back in the day) or some such idiocy.
http://www.twincities.com/localnews/ci_28733664/black-lives-matter-chant-disgusting-st-paul-police
"Stop trying to fix the police. Fix the ghetto."
Just one more quote from some black hating, presumptuous, racist.
And now we see a BLM supporter tweeting that the Texas deputy deserved being shot multiple times in cold blood. Nice folks these BLM supporters.
Disgusting and reprehensible. The BLM people are definitely a lunatic fringe.
Yet there are plenty of people who are willing to excuse and rationalize the kind of behavior we are seeing . The BLM organizer was trying to rationalize the "fry" them chant. If there was the tiniest bit of intellectual honesty and consistency, they would decry this kind of stuff quickly and loudly.
Well, considering the lack of intellectual honesty in believing their "cause" is a legitimate grievance, I wouldn't hold my breath.
I'm not. I'm also not saying that there aren't some reasons for concern in terms of some of the shootings, it's just that if one looks at what problems exist that affect larger numbers of people in real and lasting ways, this just seems like a pretty small issue.
http://madison365.com/index.php/2015/09/03/what-no-one-wants-to-talk-about-race-and-progressive-cities/
This article is absolutely hilarious (in a sad, "told you so" sort of way). It bears out what I see on a daily basis, that "liberal" cities don't do many of the things they claim to hold dear very well.
Which supports the earlier point that much of what the BLM folks protest can be laid squarely at the feet of the (white/liberal) Democratic party.
Lest we forget from 2014, "What do we want, dead cops. When do we want them, now".
And the guy who identifies as a BLM spokesperson who is calling for an " open season " on whites and cops (I know the "open season" is right, but I could be wrong about specifically who).
I know Dan isn't much for hunting or anything like that but "open season" is a hunting term that indicates that there are no kill limits.
Interesting how the pacifist ends up so often making excuses for the use of violence by those on his side.
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