More Questions

Once again, Dan continues to carp about my refusal to answer questions, so I just went through an entire comment thread and pulled out all of the questions he asked that I didn't already answer. I will try to avoid repeating his questions, although there are a multitude of examples of him asking the same question over and over. "So, if you had a married gay Christian couple, you would accept them as fellow Christians at your church?" Unfortunately, you haven't given me enough information to answer in a way you would prefer. In general, I would say that in the absence of unequivocal evidence to the contrary I would tend to take people at their word regarding whether or not they were Christian. "Or would you “accept them” insofar as you wouldn’t literally kick them out of your church, but people would tell them they’re wrong, that they’re not Christian, etc?" Again, not enough information. But in general we as a church would address any member/regular attender who was living in a manner that included open unrepentant sin. Obviously, this would not be a public castigation, but we would hope that our members are involved in relationships where they can be accountable and honest about their struggles. "I am quite sure there are moderate conservative churches out there who would absolutely not kick out even a gay couple who were married, but how would they/do you handle it?" I don't know that there is an official policy, and I'm unaware of an instance where something like this has come up, so I really don't know. I'd suggest that love, truth, gentleness, humility, and honesty would be the starting point. "Do you have any GLBT members?" Probably "If so, do you have any married GLBT couples (not that you would consider it “married,” perhaps)?" Don't know, don't really care. "If so, do you go to their houses for dinner? Invite them to your house for lunch? Hang out together?" Not up to this point. Not so far. I spend a fair amount of time "hanging out" with someone who is gay. "If so, does the topic just go ignored or do you try to lovingly broach the topic and, if so, what does that look like?" I think I've already answered this. Love, truth, gentleness, honesty, humility. "Craig, IF those numbers are sound and IF the research held up, would you be disappointed to learn that more religious folk more often kick their children out for being gay?" Yes. "Craig, John, if a transgendered woman wanted to start coming to church, would she be allowed to?" Yes "That is, if a person born male but who was dressing as a female (either transitioning or fully female), would you be in favor of your church allowing them to attend?" That is, still yes. Are you assuming that we're too stupid to know what you were talking about? "Would they be welcomed with open arms (hugs and all), even while disapproving?" I have no idea, in general we don't go around randomly hugging people we don't know. "What would that look like?" normally it looks like people build relationships with other people and greet them as people with whom they have a relationship. "So, what does that look like?" I just answered that. "Do you go visit them in their homes?" Randomly, no. Do people visit the homes of those with whom they have a relationship, yes. "Do you celebrate their anniversaries with them?" We don't celebrate anniversaries publicly. "When they try to adopt a baby, do you provide support?" Financially, no. Corporately, probably not. But that would be the same for everyone. "If they have confessed their sins and accepted Jesus as their Lord and savior, do you accept them as fellow Christians, not just fellow sinners?" What is a Christian but a sinner saved by grace? As with anyone, I would want to see if their actions lined up with their claims, but that goes for anyone. "If you don’t accept them as Christians, but do accept them into the church services, do you talk to them about their “sinful living conditions” or do you say nothing?" I'd suggest that we would treat any one engaged in an ongoing unrepentant sinful lifestyle the same in that we would (as I already answered), address any public sin withing the context of people with whom they are in relationship and accountable with. "What about the transgender woman?" What about "her"? "Do you let her into your woman’s restrooms?" Only if she passes inspection by the armed guard and get's through the X-ray machine. "Do you talk to her about her “lifestyle…”?" Sure, why would we not talk about something that is important. "Do you know WHY I am asking them?" I rarely "know" why you do many things. In this case, I suspect that you are looking for confirmation of your prejudices, or ammunition to use later. "Why balk at answering them?" I didn't balk at answering them. I gave you a general answer, and some specific reasons why I was not going into detail at that point in time. "Do you know it makes you look bad?" Actually I don't care if you think it makes me look bad to prioritize time with my family over answering your questions. "What’s the problem?" There is no problem. "You do realize, don’t you, that not all transgender folk are already “the new gender…”?" If you mean do I realize that they don't just magically switch, the answer is of course I do. "That is, some folk identifying as women and perhaps in the process of becoming biologically a woman are still a male, in their naughty bits?" Unless these folks have magically figured out how to change their chromosomal make up, their DNA, their skeletal structure, their musculature, and how their brains function, they will remain "biologically" whatever gender they started out as, no matter how many perfectly healthy body parts they remove. "Are you implying that we wouldn’t?" No "Based on what?" I've seen enough folks on the theological left who have absolutely no problem lying about any number of things when it comes to membership and ordination questions. So, I guess you could say it's based on the fact that it happens. "I’m hearing you say that they are accepted as full Christian brothers in your church?" I suspect you're hearing what you want to, rather that what I actually said. "But surely individual members get to know one another and do go out to celebrate life events like anniversaries, right?" Sure "And you all don’t announce anniversaries during the worship service, like in a prayer sharing time?" Not usually "Not even big ones like a 50th?" Not usually "Why would you not frame that response in those terms rather than in negative “sinner” terms?" If the "sinner" term was good enough for Jesus, John, Luke, Paul, etc. it's good enough for me. But why would anyone ignore the common ground we all share? We're all sinners in need of a savior. "I know part of that is the whole Calvinist “utterly depraved” attitude that many evangelicals hold to,…" I know this isn't a question, but I want to address a couple of problems. 1. The correct terms are "Calvinist" or "Reformed', not evangelical. Not all evangelicals are reformed. 2. The correct term is "Total Depravity" 3. Given our previous conversations about this, the above indicates that you still don't understand that actual doctrine. "Were you unaware of the great controversy over such a simple thing as using the bathroom?" No, and given the miniscule number of transgendered people, I suspect that the "controversy" really isn't particularly "great". "Do you understand that now?" Do I understand that there are a few churches that don't operate the way you think they should, yes. "Aha, so it IS a problem for you (and your church) if a pre-fully transistioned transgender individual wants to go to the “wrong” bathroom?" Nothing I've said would indicate that your little "gotcha" "question" is correct. "What do you suggest, instead? Filling out an affidavit prior to using the bathroom?" Armed guards and X-ray machines. "Why? What difference does that make?" If a transgendered woman, is still biologically male then she has a number of inborn physical advantages over women. "Do the physical advantages go away with the change?" Not unless the operation removes and replaces the entire skeletal/muscular system. "So, is it biology that helps us identify our gender?" Biological factors (DNA, chromosomes,skeletal systems, musculature,brain function, etc.) are not changed during the "sex change operation". Therefore other than the removal of healthy functioning tissue/organs the post op transsexual does not undergo any significant biological changes. If you can somehow scientifically separate gender from biology, then you may have a point. But, so far you haven't. "Do you think it’s wrong to ask questions about how we’re treating oppressed groups?" No "Do you think that question is an accusation?" I think that your questions are often accusations with a question mark. Whether you honestly don't know how your questions appear, or you do it in some sort of passive aggressive intentional attempt to provoke I can't say. "So, DO you think that being transgender is morally wrong?" No "What do you want me to do? Take guesses from a place of ignorance?" I'd like to see you either state your opinion, or do the research that enables you to answer the question. "Craig, what makes you a heterosexual (making that assumption)?" Biology. Heterosexuals are vital to the continuation of the species. "IS it because you have a penis, or is it the desire for/attraction to females that is in your psyche?" Neither "Is this desire “not real” since there is not a body part that can isolate that desire?" I have many desires that while "real" are not desires that I should act upon. If you would like to make the case that all desires are good, feel free. If you would like to make the case that any particular desire is good,make it. "Is heterosexuality a myth because we can’t identify it biologically?" Nope, it's a biological imperative "Or are you willing to accept that there are parts of our psyche, our Selves, that is just is real and innate as how many fingers we have on our hand or the sexual organs on our body?." Of course. But accepting the existence of these desires, does not mean that they are all equally good or valid. "It sounds as if you are saying if we can’t physically identify a physical component of our selves, then it isn’t real, but maybe I’m misreading you. Can you confirm one way or the other?" then you are wrong, as I've never said that. "What is negative about that?" That your starting prejudice is that all conservatives will behave in exactly the same way as the fringe folks you find. "Do you have other data?" Since you have given no indication that you've read the data I've provided, nor have you rebutted any of it, why would you ask for more? "…why not clarify directly?" I have. I suspect, that I won't see anything similar to this from Dan anytime soon. I will however do the same for his questions from the discussion page dialogue when I have time.