One more lengthy post of answers for Dan.

OK, it looks like I got into the “Discussion page” thread on October 1, 2014. So I am going to start from there and attempt to answer all of Dan’s questions addressed specifically to me. It is quite possible that I will miss some, and for that I apologize. But here goes. 1. “The final arbiter to what?” Determining an answer. 2. “By what standard do I decide that it is wrong to rape a puppy?” I can only guess. 3. “What argument is it you think I’m making?” That the fact that a disagreement exists demonstrates that both sides have equal validity. 4. “No. Should you marry a guy even though you’re straight for any reason – as an outreach and compromise to our gay brothers and lesbian sisters out there?” No 5. “That would be an honorable thing, right?” No 6. “Similarly, it is not healthy for a gay guy to remain married to a woman just to “honor” the marriage. How does living a lie honor a marriage?” If simple self-interest is the standard, you might have a point. However a marriage is a joining of two individuals into one entity. I can see no possible scenario of dissolving a marriage that does not involve harm. Your argument seems to be “As long as I’m not harming myself, then it’s all good.”. Unfortunately, that ignores the harm done to others. You ignoring my real life examples of this suggests that in this case, you would place homosexuality ahead of anyone else who may get harmed by the coming out. 7. “You can’t just turn off your orientation.” Proof of this statement would be helpful. I submit that there are thousands of alcoholics who turn off there orientation daily. 8. “Well, if they took the Bible literally, they would, wouldn’t they?” I don’t know, that’s why I asked. 9. “Would YOUR church not allow a polygamist?” Probably not as a member 10. “Even though the Bible does not condemn it at all and many heroes of the Bible were polygamists?” Although the Bible does prescribe marriage as 1 man and 1 woman. 11. “ If so, on what basis?” The words of Jesus 12. “On what basis do you decide that some behaviors are “sinful” and that one must agree that they are sinful in order to be part of your faith community?” Scripture. 13. “You want to believe that gay marriage is not a good thing?” Actually, my issue is with the actual behavior addressed in the Bible, not the notion that cloaking a sin in “marriage” makes it not sinful. 14. “You want to believe that it’s okay for Christians to be in the military or even be in the military yourself?” I just realized that these last two are probably statements disguised as questions. 15. “Clarified now?” No 16. “Would you REALLY want, say, a woman who realized after the fact that she was a lesbian to stay in a marriage with a guy, even though she’s not sexually attracted to him and that would be condemning the husband to a life of celibacy?” If the sole purpose of marriage was sex, you might have a point. The problem is if one takes your stand, then if one partner can’t have sex for any reason, then the marriage is void, and the other partner is free. “Better or worse, sickness or health, ‘till death do us part.” Except is there is no sex. 17. “HOW is that fair to the husband??” How is the husband abandoning his family “fair” to them? When did marriage become all about “fair”. You sound like a 12 year old. 18. “ Or would you insist that this lesbian have sex with a man against her will? HOW is that fair to the woman?” Insist, no. But it seems that marriage is about sacrificing for the good of the other, so if the lesbian actually loved (see 1 Cor 13 for a definition of love) her husband, then maybe she’d make a sacrifice. Again, since when is marriage based of “fair”? 19. “Isn’t that what repentance is about, at least in part? Realizing you made a mistake, apologizing, correcting the mistake as best you can, making amends as best you can and TURNING around, and heading in the right direction?” So, you are suggesting that this “repentance” is more important than the harm it might cause. Strange. 20. “She MADE A SOLEMN PROMISE. To HER CHILDREN!! Would it be wrong to go back on her word?” So a “SOLEMN PROMISE” (apparently ALL CAPS make it MORE SOLEMN) to one’s children is on par with a covenant entered into between a man, his wife and God. Now, if she just got married without considering the children that might be problematic, but I’d guess that as the children got older, they might be willing to re think their position. Or, one could take the Biblical view that the parents are parents for a reason, and the the children should obey their parents. 21. “Not that you’re answering any of my questions but, DO you think it would be wrong to break that promise?” I just answered that. 22. “Or, do you realize, like me, that it was a bad promise to make in the first place?” It was, and I’d suggest that it is stupid to assume that the children wouldn’t realize how childish and unrealistic they had been. 23. “The thing is, do we allow the grace for people to REPENT of the mistake they made and turn around and move on, in the RIGHT direction, or do we insist that they keep going down the wrong road?” Since you haven’t demonstrated that abandoning ones wife and children to marry your gay lover is objectively “right”, I’ll pass on this one. 24. “Again, would you want that husband to remain in a sexless marriage the rest of his lives due to a simple human error?” If you mean would I want a husband to follow the example Jesus gave and sacrifice himself for the sake of the marriage, yeah, following Jesus seems like a good plan to me. 25. “Or would you insist that the woman engage in sex contrary to her orientation (ie, she would NOT like it any more than you’d like getting it on with a guy) due to a simple human error?” Again, practicing self-sacrifice for the benefit of others sounds like something Jesus might have thought was a good thing. This still opens the door for someone who doesn’t think they’re getting enough sex to bail on their marriage. 26. “Can you even imagine at all how miserable you would be if someone forced you into gay sex?” I’ve answered this multiple times; I’m including it so you don’t think I skipped it. 27. “It is innate to you, is it not?” See, you ignored my question by asking another question. My personal experience is certainly not “proof” of anything universal. 28. “Do you really disagree with this very obvious fact or do we actually agree on that point?” You haven’t established that your statement is a “fact” once you do, then we can move on. 29. “What do you think, Craig? Do you think that people think, “Ya know, I’m really gay, but I’ll go ahead and marry the opposite gender because it will be fun, later on, to say, ‘just kidding!’ and divorce them and explain my actual orientation…”?” Actually, no. I think that IF sexual orientation is really as big a part of our core being as you insist it is, then it would be impossible to make a “mistake” about it. You probably don’t realize that this is actually more supportive of my position than yours. 30. “The question then is, GIVEN THE MISTAKE, do you really think the healthiest thing to do is KEEP going down the mistaken road or do you think it’s best to repent, admit the mistake and turn back?” You seem to think that asking the same question multiple times is helpful, it’s not. 31. “Perhaps you truly DO hate the notion of repentance…?” Nope. I’m not thrilled with your twisting the meaning of repentance, and ignoring the harm done to people, but Biblical repentance is a good thing. 32. “Tell me: Would you CHANGE ORIENTATIONS because you were bored?” No, but the question presumes that orientations cannot be changed, which you have not demonstrated. 33. “1. Where is the scientific evidence that sexual orientation is NOT innate?” Even though this is simply are asking of a question you chose NOT to answer, here goes. I am Not making a claim that sexual orientation is NOT innate, therefore there is NO burden of proof. You ARE making a claim, and that claim should be proven rather than assumed. 34. “2. Where is the scientific evidence that orientation is NOT static and lifelong?” I’d suggest that someone changing “orientation” is suggestive that “orientation” is not static. However, you made the claim that it is, without providing proof. Your turn. 35. “3. Where is the scientific (or any other proof) that how a person expresses their sexuality is NOT driven by their orientation?” See the two previous answers. 36. “4. How do YOU accurately measure what drives a person to express there sexuality in different ways?” I don’t. 37. “Or do you need to measure? Is it enough for you to puff your chest out and declare, “Thus saith the Craig (speaking on behalf of God, don’t you know)!” Since I didn’t say what you have quoted me as saying, you either don’t understand the concept of a quote, or have chosen to lie. Which is it? 38. “This appeal to science would be more believable if you all didn’t dismiss the scientific evidence when it is presented.” You mean IF it was presented. 39. “What are you saying? What do you mean “Impressive that you’ve seen research that hasn’t been done…”? “ I’m saying that by saying “If the research were done…” you are admitting that the research HASN’T been done. So, when one suggests that they know the outcome of research that hasn’t been done, that suggests an ability to see the future that you haven’t previously demonstrated. 40. “How do you drive a car?” With my feet. 41. “Thank you, Dr Craig. How many years do you have in your field of gender identity studies?” I wasn’t aware that it was necessary to have a doctorate in “gender identity studies” to understand that there are numerous biological/chromosomal/DNA differences between men and women. 42. “Or is it the case that you have eyes to see a penis and that tells you all you need to know?” Since I’ve repeatedly tried to get you to stop the penis crap and deal with the biology, this is another instance where your continued ignoring of me clarifying that you are wrong about my position is tantamount to simply lying. 43. “Gender identity is simply, factually not as simple as whether or not there’s a penis or vagina. Do you agree with the experts on that point?” I don’t know as you haven’t provided any definitive experts who unequivocally make your case. If you do, then we can revisit this. 44. Did you ever say whether or not you thought “the Bible” (or God) condemns transgender folk for the change? Yes, I did. 45. “If so, on what basis?” It’s in my answer.