Well, no one knows the answer to that one, not exactly, not specifically... right?
I believe in at least some sense, everything comes from God. Every good thing, anyway, which would include all of creation.
I can't prove it scientifically, of course, or in any objectively demonstrable manner, but since rationally ex nihilo doesn't make any sense, I point to God as the ultimate source of a Big Bang or starting point.
From there, however, atoms and molecules pulled together making things and everything came from those atoms and molecules pulling together, changing, adapting.
But ultimately, I will have to confess that this question is over my head/beyond my ability to answer in a meaningful way.
Who are we as humans and how did we get here?
We are the species, homo sapiens, who appear by the data we have, to have evolved from earlier versions of human-types. How did we get here? Specifically and literally, by evolution, according to our best science. I have no reason to doubt it.
Is there a larger purpose?
I suppose I hold that our largest purpose is to love God and love humanity, both of which involve loving our world. This is, of course, a philosophical opinion, not a scientific one. I don't think science has an answer to philosophical questions like that.
Do you have some facts on the matter, or just (like me) your opinions?
Rationally speaking, because ex nihilo problems, I believe in a Creator God... this makes sense to me. You have to have something to start Stuff happening. This, of course, is not unique thinking to me, it's a common starting point for the notion of theism.
I further believe in the notion of a good God. I think this because, as philosophers have oft noted, the notion of morality is in-built in humanity. Where does this come from? I'm sure you're familiar with arguments like this from CS Lewis and others. It's a deep discussion and if it's okay, I'll lean on these other thinkers to explain the point.
If we are willing to accept the notion of a God and a Good God, at that, then I believe it is rational that all good things are of this Good God, or perhaps original to this Good God, or inspired by... Again, I don't know that anyone knows exactly how that might play out, but it seems reasonable in general to accept this. At least to me and many others.
(Would a Good God give us Bad Things, as Jesus alluded to, after all...)
Given, then, a Good God that "gives," "Inspires," "Wills..." whatever Good for all, then it seems reasonable that that which is not Good is not given or inspired or willed by God.
Seems reasonable to me.
Now, knowing humanity, knowing our failures - sometimes mighty failures - I think most rational people can agree that humanity has a "sin problem," if I might borrow from the old Evangelicals. We mess up. We do wrong. We make mistakes.
Thus, I think it is observable that the "not good" comes from humanity, rather than a Good God.
One question I have for you, Craig, if you're playing along has to do with what you think you know and don't know as objective facts. You frequently phrase things - including these questions, but not limited to them - as if, in your mind, you think you know objectively some of these questions, but you generally seem to stick to vague perimeters when I ask you to clarify.
I would ask you, what things do you think you "know" as "objective facts..."? Do you think you "know" that there is a God and this is an objective fact, just one you can't prove? Or do you think you can prove it objectively?
Do you think you "know" that God created the world in six literal days about 6,000 years ago, or do you think it's not a knowable matter? Do you think that scientists who estimate the universe to be billions of years old do not know it objectively?
There are other things I'd be interested in knowing whether or not you think you "know" them "objectively." I am guessing that the list is pretty long of biblical opinions that you think you know, but I'll pass on asking for further specifics.
I ask this here because your questions suggest to me that you think you "know" the answers to them as "objective facts."
Again, if we're going both ways on asking and answering questions. If not, delete away.
I truly apologize that I didn’t do an adequate job of explaining what I was hoping for here. I was hoping that you would help me to do so. It seems as though you seem to be suspicious and unwilling to simply accept what I’m trying to do.
What I’d suggest, is that if your suspicions are preventing you from helping me understand your worldview then please, just say so, and we can move along. I have no desire to do anything but learn in this process.
You seem intent on trying to read things into this that aren’t there, I’ve tried to ask some broad questions about some foundational aspects of your worldview.
As I’ve said many times, I’ll answer your questions, in a separate post because I’m trying to keep these these threads to the specific focus. In this one specific instance, I’m not looking for conversation, I’m looking for information. My hope was to used these three three posts as jumping off points for future conversations. I’m sorry, that you would prefer to short circuit that.
4 comments:
Well, no one knows the answer to that one, not exactly, not specifically... right?
I believe in at least some sense, everything comes from God. Every good thing, anyway, which would include all of creation.
I can't prove it scientifically, of course, or in any objectively demonstrable manner, but since rationally ex nihilo doesn't make any sense, I point to God as the ultimate source of a Big Bang or starting point.
From there, however, atoms and molecules pulled together making things and everything came from those atoms and molecules pulling together, changing, adapting.
But ultimately, I will have to confess that this question is over my head/beyond my ability to answer in a meaningful way.
Who are we as humans and how did we get here?
We are the species, homo sapiens, who appear by the data we have, to have evolved from earlier versions of human-types. How did we get here? Specifically and literally, by evolution, according to our best science. I have no reason to doubt it.
Is there a larger purpose?
I suppose I hold that our largest purpose is to love God and love humanity, both of which involve loving our world. This is, of course, a philosophical opinion, not a scientific one. I don't think science has an answer to philosophical questions like that.
Do you have some facts on the matter, or just (like me) your opinions?
Again, I don't think any of us know the details.
Rationally speaking, because ex nihilo problems, I believe in a Creator God... this makes sense to me. You have to have something to start Stuff happening. This, of course, is not unique thinking to me, it's a common starting point for the notion of theism.
I further believe in the notion of a good God. I think this because, as philosophers have oft noted, the notion of morality is in-built in humanity. Where does this come from? I'm sure you're familiar with arguments like this from CS Lewis and others. It's a deep discussion and if it's okay, I'll lean on these other thinkers to explain the point.
If we are willing to accept the notion of a God and a Good God, at that, then I believe it is rational that all good things are of this Good God, or perhaps original to this Good God, or inspired by... Again, I don't know that anyone knows exactly how that might play out, but it seems reasonable in general to accept this. At least to me and many others.
(Would a Good God give us Bad Things, as Jesus alluded to, after all...)
Given, then, a Good God that "gives," "Inspires," "Wills..." whatever Good for all, then it seems reasonable that that which is not Good is not given or inspired or willed by God.
Seems reasonable to me.
Now, knowing humanity, knowing our failures - sometimes mighty failures - I think most rational people can agree that humanity has a "sin problem," if I might borrow from the old Evangelicals. We mess up. We do wrong. We make mistakes.
Thus, I think it is observable that the "not good" comes from humanity, rather than a Good God.
One question I have for you, Craig, if you're playing along has to do with what you think you know and don't know as objective facts. You frequently phrase things - including these questions, but not limited to them - as if, in your mind, you think you know objectively some of these questions, but you generally seem to stick to vague perimeters when I ask you to clarify.
I would ask you, what things do you think you "know" as "objective facts..."? Do you think you "know" that there is a God and this is an objective fact, just one you can't prove? Or do you think you can prove it objectively?
Do you think you "know" that God created the world in six literal days about 6,000 years ago, or do you think it's not a knowable matter? Do you think that scientists who estimate the universe to be billions of years old do not know it objectively?
There are other things I'd be interested in knowing whether or not you think you "know" them "objectively." I am guessing that the list is pretty long of biblical opinions that you think you know, but I'll pass on asking for further specifics.
I ask this here because your questions suggest to me that you think you "know" the answers to them as "objective facts."
Again, if we're going both ways on asking and answering questions. If not, delete away.
I truly apologize that I didn’t do an adequate job of explaining what I was hoping for here. I was hoping that you would help me to do so. It seems as though you seem to be suspicious and unwilling to simply accept what I’m trying to do.
What I’d suggest, is that if your suspicions are preventing you from helping me understand your worldview then please, just say so, and we can move along. I have no desire to do anything but learn in this process.
You seem intent on trying to read things into this that aren’t there, I’ve tried to ask some broad questions about some foundational aspects of your worldview.
As I’ve said many times, I’ll answer your questions, in a separate post because I’m trying to keep these these threads to the specific focus. In this one specific instance, I’m not looking for conversation, I’m looking for information. My hope was to used these three three posts as jumping off points for future conversations. I’m sorry, that you would prefer to short circuit that.
Be patient, I’ll answer.
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