“Dear God,
Please help me to hate wh1te people. Or at least to want to hate them. At least, I want to stop caring about them, individually and collectively. I want to stop caring about their misguided, racist souls, to stop believing that they can be better, that they can stop being racist.”
[…]”Lord, if it be your will, harden my heart. Stop me from striving to see the best in people. Stop me from being hopeful that White people can do and be better.
[…]”Let me see them as hopelessly unrepentant, reprobate bigots who have blasphemed the Holy Spirit and who need to be handed over to the evil one.”
I'm not sure that this fits in with the whole "Love your enemies" ethic that Jesus taught, but who really cares about that sort of thing, right?
19 comments:
Wait, it gets worse. They got this line of thinking from their radical leader!
"“If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his own father, mother, wife, children, brothers, sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be My disciple."
That's quite the attempt to use a woodenly literal interpretation on a passage that most agree (and the very context of Jesus' life seems to corroborate) is hyperbole.
I must have missed the part in Jesus words where He specified hating people solely because of their race/ethnicity.
The writer of this prayer isn't Jesus.
What? Jesus used hyperbole and figurative language to make a point?!! Egad!
I wonder if this POET knows about figurative language...?
What a dope.
What in the hell are you even talking about? You’re the one arguing for a wooden literal interpretation of one passage that doesn’t fit with the rest of Jesus teachings.
Hey, you do you.
Sorry, Craig, you're clearly a racist. You referred to "White people" with a capital "W" when everyone knows that only people of color get a capital letter. Always trying to elevate the white man, eh.
That "prayer" does indeed seem to be the wish of the progressive "Christian". It certainly reflects the attitude of those that post comments here. It's a bit incomplete, but it'll do.
you really do have a hard time understanding the written word, don't you? Thank it through...
1. You HAVE to know that I don't take that passage from Jesus literally. You know that, right?
2. Taking that as a given, Then you know that I am not suggesting that passage should be taken literally. And clearly emphasising the passage IS metaphorical. But why am I bringing that up here?
3. Think!
If Jesus, the Lord of lords, could use metaphor to make a point, MAYBE other poets could do the same... you think?
4. Indeed, MAYBE that is what this poet you're citing is doing... isn't that possible?
Likely, even?
Or think of other biblical instances. The psalmist praying that God would bash in the heads of the babies of the enemies!
Wow. Brutal, and It's right there in the Bible! Does that mean that God approved of killing babies, even though it's the babies of a brutal, oppressive enemy?
OR, do You think that it's there to emphasize that God understands the plight of the oppressed? God understands the depth of hatred an oppressed group might feel towards a brutalized enemy?
And that maybe THAT SAME distress is what the pray-er is putting voice to?
Are both of these explanations not more likely reasons for the tone of the prayer in question?
And if it's good enough for God and for Jesus, maybe you could make room in your heart and mind for this EXTREMELY Biblical prayer?
Figurative writing truly seems to be lost on today's conservatives.
It wasn't me, really it wasn't. I just copy/pasted.
1. Thank you for clarifying. Given you inconsistent switches between woodenly literal, and fantastically figurative, it's difficult to keep up. But thanks for demonstrating that you don't understand the positions you try to parody.
2. Of course you are. You communicated that so very clearly.
3. Ok.
4. I guess it's possible that the author of the devotional book that has been sold as a devotional guide, is saying that when she says "hate white people", that she really means something else entirely. It's also possible that she means exactly what she said. But if you want to answer for an explanation that contradicts the words used, go right ahead.
"Likely?"
Given the tone of the progressive christian side of things on issues of race, I doubt it, but it's possible.
"Wow. Brutal, and It's right there in the Bible! Does that mean that God approved of killing babies, even though it's the babies of a brutal, oppressive enemy?"
A. She's not writing scripture, not a prophet, not a psalmist, so why would I treat her words like scripture.
B. I guess you'd have to provide the context to answer that question. If God didn't "bash the heads of babies", then it's likely He didn't approve.
"OR, do You think that it's there to emphasize that God understands the plight of the oppressed?"
Sure, I guess I'm not seeing how a prayer asking God to help someone "hate" an entire race of people based 100% on their skin color helps anyone understand anything. Further, since Jesus frequently taught us to "love our enemies", why would someone pray for Jesus to enable them to do the opposite of Jesus' teachings? Are you suggesting that every single living white person has "brutalized" the author? That she is somehow justified in violating the commandments of Jesus?
"God understands the depth of hatred an oppressed group might feel towards a brutalized enemy?"
I guess it depends on your/her concept of God. I would suggest that an all knowing, all powerful, Creator God (as we see described in scripture) would know much more than one human being that is part of His creation. I'd argue that any deficit in knowledge is on her side of things, not God's.
"And that maybe THAT SAME distress is what the pray-er is putting voice to?"
Again, anything is possible. Even that God will lead someone to behavior that contradicts His commandments. I guess racism is OK when it's dressed up like this.
"Are both of these explanations not more likely reasons for the tone of the prayer in question?"
No, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, why would I assume such a wild flight of fancy that contradicts what we know of God? Why would I not take her words at face value?
And if it's good enough for God and for Jesus, maybe you could make room in your heart and mind for this EXTREMELY Biblical prayer?
"Figurative writing truly seems to be lost on today's conservatives. "
Not at all. But it is an excellent excuse to justify racism.
This is so typical Dan. While he constantly implores you to oppose that which he believes you ought..."Tell me you don't believe what he said!"...he can't simply acknowledge this broad is whack for daring to publish such a "prayer" and move on. Even if I was to buy this chick's whine, there's no way I could rationalize such crap. Dan's another animal.
It’s like Occam’s Razor is an unfamiliar concept. Instead of taking the most logical approach, to simply read what’s written as written, he feels the need to meander around and assume figurative language when it’s not necessary.
Dan's all about embracing grace, and this "metaphor" (hyperbole, actually) is what it looks like.
Yeah, nothing in that prayer sounds like Jesus or grace.
Craig..." nothing in that prayer sounds like Jesus or grace..."
And yet, you DO think that something in the imprecatory prayers in the OT sound like Jesus or grace?
You cite Occam's razor but fail to embrace the most logical approach. You fail to embrace metaphor when that's most likely and fail to embrace literalism when that's most likely.
The ultimate failing of conservatives and other pharisees.
Craig... "A. She's not writing scripture, not a prophet, not a psalmist, so why would I treat her words like scripture."
And really, this is the last one on this post...
You are NOT to treat her words like Scripture, you're to read Scripture and other written messages AS IF THEY WERE WRITTEN and recognize that when things are written, the author may be embracing metaphor or writing a scientific treatise... using poetic license or citing literal history.
And understanding the difference is important if you want to be able to read for understanding.
And all this explains so much.
Let’s start with pointing out that Dan is defending an alleged Christian teacher/leader who is advocating that we pray that God lead us to “hate” other human beings based 100% on their race.
Then let’s consider that his reasoning for doing so involves filtering her words through multiple “what it” filters and arbitrarily assigning them the status of “figurative”.
Then he filters that preconception through some imaginary Psalm, and concludes that the simplest answer must be the one that involves NOT taking her words at face value.
Yes, that definitely makes the most sense.
Dan, you continue to embrace “hate”, I’ll stick with loving my enemies.
You'll stick to "loving your enemies" by deciding the worst of them?
We see.
Don't know what's worse...composing such a prayer or defending it. Either way, we see who the real racists are once again.
No, acknowledging someone's errors is not "deciding the worst". Something you know about.
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