Wednesday, January 25, 2023

Crime and Punishment

 There were two separate but related stories that came up this week that share a common thread.   They both involve the punishment for crimes committed.


Someone posted a picture of the Singapore airport and asked why we didn't have beautiful places like that in the US.  Matt Walsh responded by pointing out that one possible reason was that in Singapore they have a legal system that is so draconian that people aren't going to engage in destruction of property because if the consequences.  Many people missed what I think was his point.   What stood out to me was the fact that a legal system with draconian punishments for even minor crimes does seem to be successful in minimizing crime.  In other words the trade off for a society with a low crime rate is a justice system which canes people for minor crimes, and imposes a swift death penalty for major crimes.  I think he's onto something.  In the US over the last few years we've seen increases in all sorts of crimes, and increases in rioting and looting.   We've also seen cities start to not enforce certain laws, and criminals who's punishments range from minor to nonexistent.     I'm not saying that I agree with these types of legal systems, but I do agree that cutting off the hands of thieves would likely be more of a deterrent than even a short incarceration.   I'd suggest that the folx who are regularly looting stores in various cities with impunity, might be deterred if it was going to cost them a body part or being caned.   Again, I'm not necessarily endorsing this concept, but I do agree that draconian consequences, swiftly administered, are very likely to lower crime, and save money.   

 

The second story involves a couple of gay men who adopted children, brutally sexually abused them,  and produced videos of this vile abuse.   I think that virtually everyone in the US regardless of their political views would agree that these were heinous crimes committed by two vile and evil men.  Many people, myself included, would argue that the death penalty is the only appropriate punishment for these vermin.  But it seems as tough a left leaning court struck down the death penalty for cases in which parents sexually abuse their children.   It could be argued that life in the general population of a maximum security prison is likely to be a death sentence, but do we as a country want prisoners in charge of meting out punishment to people?   I admit that there is a perverse sense of these vermin getting their just deserts by spending years of their lives being violently raped, abused, and likely killed by their fellow inmates.  While spending the rest of their lives being protected by the state doesn't seem particularly just.   The fact that there are people who would argue that the death penalty isn't appropriate for vile creatures like these completely mystify me.  


I think that the conclusion these two stories have led me to is that if the state is willing to be draconian enough in punishing minor crime, and actually follows through with swift and harsh punishment, that we would likely see a decrease in crime.   The question then becomes how draconian is too draconian, and are people willing to trade draconian punishment for lower crime.  


We all know that these idiotic bans on "assault weapons" will have a minimal effect on crime, at best.  We know that criminals will be able to source illegal weapons, and will use them.  We know that law abiding citizens will obey the law, and will use other tools to exorcise their rights.  What would be interesting to see is what would happen if committing a crime with a gun, came with a swift, harsh, significant punishment.   



12 comments:

Marshal Art said...

There's no doubt that current attitudes with regard to defunding police, cashless bail, raising the amount one can steal before doing anything about and a host of other soft-on-crime policies by the left has led to an increasingly dangerous life for the average citizen. The hated Rudy Giuliani, while mayor of NYC, instituted...I think it was called...the Broken Windows policy, which simply meant holding accountable people who committed even minor crimes...like breaking a window. This led to crimes rates dropping. It didn't even require caning or chopping off hands. It just involved arresting those who break the law and following through with punishments.

But could that be enough in today's climate? Hard to say. Perhaps severe penalties would indeed be necessary given the boldness of the common thug today. A Fox weatherman was beaten by seven teen thugs when he dared spoke out against their treatment of another passenger on the subway. They were let off. They should all be in jail, awaiting serious punishment for their thuggery. Imagine being beaten merely for trying to stop mistreatment of another. Personally, I would have no problem if instead he want all Bernie Getz on the punks. We need less punks and if their actions are over-the-top serious, then should they lose the opportunity to repent by being put down like dogs, I don't see how we as a society lose. (Here's where moronic leftists will assume racist intent...which is why they're morons and punks prevail.)

As to the vile homosexuals, they're members of a historically oppressed group, so we can't do anything about their crimes. Pardon me. That's my Dan Trabue impression. Pretty spot on, no?

I have far less regard for those who abuse children, be they parents who abort or parents who abuse those not aborted. Children are beyond doubt the most historically oppressed segment of humanity. They are more than anyone, "the least of these".

But I worry about imposing the death sentence for anyone not guilty of murder. I can see this concept being abused easily, as capital punishment for vermin like these guys might surely be used to justify it for other non-murder infractions. On top of that, it seems they'd be getting off easy for a crime which one might argue is far more vile than mere murder. I consider it poetic justice...as well as justice by definition...were they to suffer for years at the hands of fellow inmates, the abuse they inflicted then being imposed upon them. Karma writ large.

Craig said...

I think that you are correct in pointing out how society has allowed behaviors to become accepted of late, as long as they're engaged in by the right people.

I understand your hesitancy to advocate the death penalty for these sorts of vile scum, and the thought of them being savaged by other inmates for years has a certain appeal. Call me crazy, but I think that the death penalty is appropriate for these two animals.

The bigger point still remains. That a country might have to choose between having nice things in public spaces, or allowing a certain segment of society to trash those public spaces. The cost for nice things, just might be harsh penalties for criminals.

Marshal Art said...

Just to be clear, the thought that two scum such as these would be executed for their crimes against children is not a problem for me. I would allow that society finds such a punishment appropriate and would not fight against it, nor truly disagree with the opinion. Such a heinous crime must be considered worthy of death for whatever deterrent effect it might bring with it, for the sake of children.

But again, as murder has always been the line one must cross to be worthy of execution, I worry that capital punishment for anything less than murder will result in morons seeking it for other crimes for which it is wholly inappropriate. I also believe it's too good for such scum, as the constant threat of attack while serving a life sentence would allow them to live in the same fear and terror they imposed upon the children they abused. It might even result in self-execution!

There's always been the argument regarding CP as a deterrent. Is it or isn't it? The answer really depends upon the criminal, as for some it wouldn't matter in the least. But former Chicago Mayor Richard M. Daley said it best when he insisted it wasn't meant to deter, but to punish.

And that goes for every sentence for every infraction. Some won't want to risk the consequences and will at least limit their criminality to that which carries punishments the believe they can endure. The rest will serve out the sentence should they be caught and convicted, and the public with benefit on both counts. But without enforcement of the law, most importantly as regards punishments for convictions, crime will increase in both frequency and severity as we're currently suffering now thanks to Dem voters.

And yeah, increasing the "harshness" of penalties will help in that regard as well.

Craig said...

I've never thought that CP should only be applied to murder.

Marshal Art said...

It's the only way it can be and still regard ourselves as moral or biblical.

Craig said...

I'm not totally sure that I can agree that the only way is to limit capitol punishment.

Strangely enough, both this story and the black cop story have almost disappeared from the MSM.

Marshal Art said...

My point is that when we start executing people for lesser crimes than murder, we are necessarily becoming less ourselves...becoming vengeful. I don't say this to minimize the serious nature of crimes other than murder. But we can't do things based on emotion, which I believe is behind the consideration of CP for lesser crimes than murder. I get it. I hate child abuse crimes more than murder, but it's not murder.

Glenn E. Chatfield said...

Anyone raping children should suffer C.P.!

Craig said...

Art,

I'm not sure that I agree with you. My emotional response in to put these scum in the general population of a maximum security prison and let them get some of their own medicine. But to do so intentionally sounds a bit barbaric. Scum like these do potentially irreparable harm to children and should be sentenced harshly.

Glenn E. Chatfield said...

If I remember correctly (I don't want to take the time to look), God gave CP for more than murder.

Marshal Art said...

Glenn,

Yes He did. But by the time He handed down the Law in Leviticus, He had already spoken of CP in Genesis 9:5-6.

Craig,

Again, I am more opposed to child abuse than to the murder of adults. But abuse isn't taking of a life, and trauma can be healed. Dead bodies can't. And of course, there are too many who suggest CP is barbaric, too, so I'm not concerned with how some regard whatever punishment short of execution is mandated for abusing children. Being abused by stronger felons in prison is a pretty harsh sentence, but unlike the children abused, abusers can fight back.

Craig said...

Art,

I'm not saying that your opinion is wring, just that I don't agree with it.