Wednesday, October 24, 2018

Bad

Under no circumstances is it in any way acceptable to send or place explosives or poison or any other substance that would cause harm, at the home (or in the mailbox of) anyone you disagree with about anything.  

44 comments:

Craig said...

“Make no mistake: Despicable acts of violence and harassment are being carried out by radicals across the political spectrum—not just by one side. Regardless of who is responsible, these acts are wrong and must be condemned by Democrats and Republicans alike. Period.“

Dan Trabue said...

And what about public leaders treating fellow citizens like an enemy of the people, by, for instance, calling them the enemy of the people? Or by getting crowds riled up and yelling lock her up! Lock her up! Or getting crowds riled up by making jokes about body-slamming reporters and calling reporters in the free-press and enemy of the people? Are all these actions that incite to violence also something you would condemn?

Marshal Art said...

I'm not going to express my opinion because Dan and others desperately need to believe that I would be cool with this.

I saw a guy on Facebook actually act as if this is typical behavior from the right-wing. Seriously.

Craig said...

I guess I’m still ok with the first amendment which allows freedom of speech, even when it’s objectionable and unsavory. I’m not sure someone expressing their opinion, no matter how much I may find it repugnant, is in the same realm as what I’ve mentioned.

Just like folx on one side of the political spectrum didn’t feel like speaking negatively of the folx who wanted to “Fry pigs (the police) like bacon”, I don’t see why I need to condemn people’s opinions.

The fact that this simple, direct statement against violence against those you disagree with is somehow controversial is bizarre to me. Almost as bizarre as the silence from folx on the left when Molotov cocktails were flying and large chucks of concrete being dropped at/on the police.

Craig said...

“Name the conservative who approves of sending bombs to opponents, and you'll find every other conservative rejects him.
No equivocation.
No qualifications.
It is unacceptable.“

Craig said...

I, as usual, don’t want to leap to conclusions about who is responsible for sending the fake bombs. But, I wonder how the leftists will excuse this action if the evidence demonstrates that they were sent by a person or group with the intent of increasing sympathy for the DFL in the upcoming elections. It’s certainly not unheard of for leftists to fake this sort of crime, usually the response is silence, but we’ll see.

Dan Trabue said...

And yet, I point out the real world fact that the conservative leader is stirring up hatred, inciting violence, demonizing the other, telling people that the media and Liberals are in me of the state... And nothing.

Only equivocations.
Qualifications.
And "it is acceptable."

Craig said...

And yet you stay silent while liberals actively engage in violence in the real world.

The fact that you won’t just acknowledge the simple fact that engaging in political violence is wrong, no matter which side it’s on. That you see this non partisan condemnation of violence as an excuse to continue your partisan hatred of Trump speaks volumes about your true motives.

The fact that you can’t simply agree with the seemingly uncontroversial point of the post is telling as well.

If you’d have done what you expect others to do when folx you defend we’re calling for “Frying the police like bacon” and throwing Molotov cocktails at and dropping chunks of concrete on police officers, you might have some credibility. If you’d spoken out as liberals shot and beat GOP elected officials, I could take you seriously. But this ostrich like myopia regarding the reality on your side of things simply destroys and hope of taking you seriously.

I saw a story on a mainstream morning news show about an hour ago about how the investigators are going to “follow the evidence” and “not jump to conclusions”. Would that the “Trump is responsible for the bomb scare” folks chose the same course.



Craig said...


Don't be a stupid liar. Of course I am always opposed to violence. You can tell by the way I've always said that I am always opposed to violence. To try to suggest there's any kind of Silence when I've always been quite clear that I'm always supposed to deadly violence is just stupid and devious and dishonest and, quite frankly, diabolical. What's wrong with today's conservatives?

Craig said...

The last comment is from Dan, but I choose to edit out the worst of his incivility.

As an aside, it’s interesting that as he rails about the incivility and horribleness of conservatives, he can’t help becoming what he tails against.


Now, to his actual point.

The issue isn’t whether you oppose violence or not. The issue is your silence on violence from your side of things. It’s entirely possible that you do oppose violence, yet only choose to speak out when it gives you some perceived political advantage.

I’m not merely suggesting silence, I’m stating the fact that you’ve been silent regarding the incidents I’ve mentioned, the case of Keith Ellison, the various ANTIFA riots, the brutal attack on Rand Paul, and the increasing number of incidents of verbal assaults on conservatives in public (or the elected officials that incite them), and the multiple instances where your folx have suggested that Trump should be asdisinatef. I could go on, but your silence on these specifics alone make my point.

I’ll close with pointing out a couple of ironies.

1. Your continued accusations of lies on the part of others, while ignoring the lies you tell.

2. The fact that I’m virtually banned from your blog (even though I’ve fulfilled your demands), yet I post your comments no matter what level of lies and attacks they contain. I admit I’ve accidentally deleted several, but in each case I’ve promptly apologized and asked you to re submit them.

“There are none so blind, as those who will not see.”

As far as I know there is nothing “wrong” with “conservatives” specifically. Beyond being fallen, sinful, imperfect humans. “Conservatives” cover a broad spectrum and to broad brush a wide spectrum of people as having something “wrong” with them is simply foolish.

Dan Trabue said...

As has been pointed out repeatedly to you, Troll Man, I don't comment on every topic in the world, nor do you.

The fact that none of us comments on every topic in the world is meaningless, as no one has TIME to comment on ever topic and event in the world. But when people/conservatives bring it up, it is inevitably a dodge, to dance away from the reality that their leader has endorsed violence and demonized and attacked liberals and the free press relentlessly. And now, we see the damage done by that sort of inciting of violence.

We do have free speech. That free speech is not boundless, however. We don't have the liberty to incite to violence.

You want someone to speak up? Why not begin by asking conservatives to speak up and out against the man who is actually inciting violence shamelessly?

Show that you're not a troll and that you have some credibility.

As it is, you have none.

Craig said...

I have never expected you to comment on every topic. But when topics are brought up to you, or you are asked about topics, I do expect that you might respond to specific instances that are brought to your attention. Clearly this is a mistake on my part and I apologize.

It’s not so much that I want someone to speak up, it’s more that I continue to hope for you to demonstrate some level of consistency and intellectual honesty. I hope that at some point, you will abandon your double standard and adopt the same expectations and standards you demand of others for yourself.

You don’t seem to understand that your avoidance of things that reflect badly on your side, you are increasingly common vulgarity and instability, and you were general level of vitriol, affect how people perceive and respond to you. Somehow, you seem to think that telling lies and calling people names is an effective way to achieve your goals.

But as long as your game is simply to attempt to shame other people into acting in ways that you refuse to act, I see no reason to play that game.

Craig said...

Of course you must to know, that making vague demands that I do things I’ve already done, while you remain silent doesn’t help you. You just choose to ignore that and stick to the vitriolic and expletive laden script.

Marshal Art said...

"But when people/conservatives bring it up, it is inevitably a dodge, to dance away from the reality that their leader has endorsed violence..."

This is an outright and willful lie. When has Trump endorsed violence? Has he encouraged people to "get in their faces"? To "tell them 'We don't want you here'" when his followers confront them in restaurants? Has he planned that "when they go low, we'll kick 'em"? Has he penned stories or created rap videos depicting assassinations? Has he threatened to punch Robert Di Niro or Joe Biden? No. I don't believe he has. I do believe that lefties have purposely distort what he says.

"...demonized and attacked liberals and the free press relentlessly."

That's funny. I remember a poem this deranged blogger composed about GW Bush, which really demonized the guy. Lefties demonize the right constantly. Republicans are racist, misogynist, greedy, hateful. They're nazis and fascists, too. Demonizing is what lefties do, and Dan's no slouch in that department, either.

As to the press, the press has been deserving of criticism for some time. They're NOT objective, they're NOT concerned with speaking the truth. But, Dan and the left demonizes Trump as one who attacks the institution of the press, when honest people know and agree with his righteous attacks on those in the press whose biases are out in the open and obvious in their reporting.

Marshal Art said...

Oh, and BTW. Dan doesn't cover every issue out there because he's too busy demonizing.

Craig said...

Is the mantra of Trump or his supporters “By any means necessary.”?

Craig said...

If the conclusion you jumped to without any evidence ends up being correct, it just means you guessed right. Don’t pat yourself on the back.

Craig said...

“All my hero’s kill cops”. ANTIFA protester. I guess it’s one more thing y’all can silently ignore.

Craig said...

“We cannot tolerate people terrorizing, whether it’s political speech or whatever, individuals for what they believe.”

I guess these two quotes give some insight into the mindset of liberal v. conservative.

Craig said...

“The person being named as the chief suspect in the #mailbombing campaign has a LONG criminal record going back nearly 30 years of various offenses including drug supply, domestic violence, fraud, grand theft.“

Is Trump responsible for his entire decades long criminal career?

Dan Trabue said...

Yes, you hypocritical moron. We will ignore some random, anonymous, alleged left-wing wacko that you say exists.

When you call out each and every right-wing wacko making threats, speaking obnoxiously, terrorizing others... When you call them ALL including ones you never heard of) individually... then I will worry about trying to call out every possible person who might be on the left. The thing is, you hypocritical jackass, that no one does is because no one can do this. Don't be an idiot.

Craig said...

First, the fact that you think that name calling and miss representation is an effective argument is in credibly instructive.

Second, I am not asking that you call out every single person on your side of the aisle who does or says anything outrageous. I’ve actually said as much in this very thread. It’s the fact that you’re silent on virtually ever instance that’s a problem. It’s the hypocrisy and double standard. It’s the “liberals don’t want to kill cops”, then ignoring the fact that liberals are saying that they do. It’s the fact that even when this stuff is pointed out to you, you ignore it for you excuse it.


But you just keep right on asking for other people to do what you won’t do. It doesn’t make sense, it’s intellectually dishonest, it’s hypocritical, it’s a double standard, but it’s how you roll.

Of course the irony continues to pile up.

Dan Trabue said...

IF President Obama were calling for people to beat up reporters or republicans, I'd say something about it.

But some random guy you say exists somewhere out there? It is meaningless.

Meaningless, like your inane troll droppings.

Craig said...

There are a lot of people in various types of media, who are trying to blame the mailing of these devices on all sorts of different people. I know this is a radical idea, but what if we just blamed the person or people who actually did it?What if we help people responsible for their own actions, and didn’t spend all this time and effort trying to blame other people?

Craig said...

So, the only liberal you find it worth addressing is the president. Congressman, senators, governors, they don’t count. Just the president. Because we have certainly seen liberal members of Congress calling for attacks on people, I guess they get a pass.

Marshal Art said...

Trump called on people to beat up reporters or Democrats? When?

Craig said...

Unfortunately, being self-employed means that I frequently don’t have time to follow the news as closely as other people do. Having said that, I have picked up a bit of gibberish that suggests that the Florida guy who was arrested was foreclosed on by a bank owned by or run by one of trumps cabinet members. I guess this bit of trivia has convinced people that this night was a Trump supporter because of Trump cabinet member owned of the bank that for closed on him. Seems pretty convoluted, but when your desperate and lacking in facts, I guess you take what you can get.

Craig said...

Someone brought up a salient point, he couldn’t have been a registered Republican.

Craig said...

“Cesar Sayoc - the alleged mail bomber - had Trump stickers all over his vehicle. But on Twitter, he only follows 32 people - many of whom are left-wingers like Lina Dunham, Barack Obama and Jimmy Kimmel.“

I’m not sure if this is true or not, but doesn’t it point out the value of not jumping to conclusions?

Craig said...

“I cant think of a single violent political terrorist conservatives even mildly defend in any capacity, let alone celebrate or honor. We do not make posters or T-shirts of violent activists. I can't think of anyone I admire for violently engaging in political opposition.

Can you?“

Craig said...

“Democratic terrorist James Hodgkinson’s favorite media personality was MSNBC’s Rachel Maddow.

He tried to murder multiple Republicans while screaming: “This is for healthcare”“

Craig said...

“1. The Tree of Life shooter is an actual racist & anti-Semite.

2. He hated & didn't vote for @realDonaldTrump explicitly because he correctly realized that the President is neither a racist or an anti-Semite.

3. But leave it to the media to ignore reality & blame him anyway.“

Craig said...

“While the #FakeNews was drooling with hype that Cesar Sayoc is a bona fide Trump loving Republican, a social media investigation shows alleged “MAGA Bomber” is registered Democrat, hates Republicans, bashes Bush, Cheney as ‘war criminals' and praises Code Pink.“

Craig said...

In the rush from the left to hang every single negative thing that happens around the neck of Trump and the right, and the natural tendency to defend oneself when atracked, I wonder why more of us don’t actually wait until we have more information before we go off.

Craig said...

“Cesar Sayoc has long criminal history of extremist behavior-like his 2002 bomb threats-which predate @realDonaldTrump’s political career-He’s a self-started amateur extremist- He didn’t need Trump for inspiration. #Congratulations to #FBI & all those whose lives were disrupted“

Craig said...

“If you express outrage over today’s slaughter in Pittsburgh but shrug at a mass murder at an Israeli synagogue, I see you.”

Dan Trabue said...

I've never met anyone who shrugs at mass murder anywhere, ever. Have you?

I suspect you're back to expecting people to comment on every bad thing everywhere (and if they don't, they're hypocritical), which is just the same nonsense you've been spouting to justify atrocious behavior on your side.

Craig said...

Actually I frequently see folx on your side of the political spectrum who’s response to mass murder tend from indifference to support as long as the murders are the “right” people.

This “you expect everyone to comment on everything” is just more example of you choosing to lie about something to cover your refusal to engage with substance. One way you might be able to figure out that I’m not saying that, is by reading the part where I specifically addressed your falsehood.

I’m posting the quotes I’m posting to make an entirely different point.

But you just stick with the narrative (false though it is) that you fell offers you protection.

Dan Trabue said...

You are a fucking low grade liar who is almost certainly a russian troll or a troll of some other sort. To hell with your inane lies and defense of perverts, rapists and liars.

I'm done with you. I wipe the dust from my feet and pray for your soul.

Craig said...

“Caesar Sayoc was a lifelong Democrat. He recently registered as a Republican, covered his van with a Trump stickers, and began sending bombs without detonators to prominent Democrats. And the Left wants to know why we find that suspicious!“

Craig said...

The above is an example of the hypocrisy of those on the left who bemoan the lack of civility in politics.

There is no possible way in which that comment is a reasonable or rational response to anything that has been said in this thread. It further seems irrational and unreasonable to continue to tell lies, while at the same time decrying the telling of lies.

Finally, it sounds like at least 2 mainstream media outlets lied by omission (suppressing exculpatory evidence) in the case of the accusations against Kavanaugh. Apparently that kind of lying is OK.

Craig said...

Given the objective reality that the quality of a cable or broadcast television into T is measured in large part by ratings, and given the objective fact that the ratings for CNN have dropped precipitously and our behind there to primary cable news competitors, I’d suggest that “CNN sucks”, is simply a statement expressing reality.

Craig said...

“Israel has hypnotized the world, may Allah awaken the people and help them see the evil doings of Israel. “

This is what we get from someone who wants to be elected by DFL voters to a national office.

Craig said...

It’s a given that we are all shocked and outraged by the synagogue shooting in Pittsburgh, and hope for swift and severe punishment for the shooter.

Having said that, anyone on the left who’s up in arms about antisemitism needs to deal with the fact that the Democratic Party has supported, embraced, and ignored antisemitism for years. As long as Clinton, Farrakhan, Hamas, etc get love from the DFL, it’s hard to take this talk seriously.