"3 See what great love the Father has lavished on us, that we should be called children of God! And that is what we are! The reason the world does not know us is that it did not know him. 2 Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when Christ appears,[a] we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is. 3 All who have this hope in him purify themselves, just as he is pure."
Here we see John asserting that our status as "children of God" (those "born of God", perhaps) is entirely due to the Father lavishing His love on us, and not as a result of our loving of others. Again, note the focus on purity.
"4 Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness. 5 But you know that he appeared so that he might take away our sins. And in him is no sin. 6 No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him."
More about sin and not following the law, His "taking away our sins", and about those who keep on sinning.
"7 Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. The one who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous. 8 The one who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work. 9 No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God. 10 This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not God’s child, nor is anyone who does not love their brother and sister."
Wow, a warning about those who will "lead you astray". More sin, more devil. "The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work", strange that "The reason" doesn't mention the poor/oppressed.
More on Love and Hatred
"11 For this is the message you heard from the beginning: We should love one another. 12 Do not be like Cain, who belonged to the evil one and murdered his brother. And why did he murder him? Because his own actions were evil and his brother’s were righteous. 13 Do not be surprised, my brothers and sisters,[b] if the world hates you. 14 We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love each other. Anyone who does not love remains in death. 15 Anyone who hates a brother or sister is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life residing in him."
Finally, a mention of loving one another, man that took quite a while.
"16 This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers and sisters. 17 If anyone has material possessions and sees a brother or sister in need but has no pity on them, how can the love of God be in that person? 18 Dear children, let us not love with words or speech but with actions and in truth."
Interesting that John tells us what love is (Christ laid down His life for us) and that we should (lay down our lives for our brothers and sisters), which raises that question about who our "brothers and sisters" are. Seems like those who are also "born of" or "children of God" might be an good answer. Finally, we get to sharing what we have with our "brother and sister"s, but no mention of the poor/oppressed, as well as noting that this is the result of what Christ did not a prerequisite for us to be "born of God". Also, note the focus on "truth".
"19 This is how we know that we belong to the truth and how we set our hearts at rest in his presence: 20 If our hearts condemn us, we know that God is greater than our hearts, and he knows everything. 21 Dear friends, if our hearts do not condemn us, we have confidence before God 22 and receive from him anything we ask, because we keep his commands and do what pleases him. 23 And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us. 24 The one who keeps God’s commands lives in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us."
Something that sounds like eternal security, check. Recieving our requests from God, check. Keep God's commands, check. (twice) KNowledge from the Holy Spirit, check.
6 comments:
Something that sounds like eternal security, check. Recieving our requests from God, check. Keep God's commands, check. (twice) KNowledge from the Holy Spirit, check.
EXCEPT, I'm guessing, that you don't really believe it.
For instance, "Dear friends, if our hearts do not condemn us, we have confidence before God"
My heart does not condemn me, therefore, I have eternal security and assurance, is that what you believe?
I believe that the Holy Spirit affirms the Way of Christ in me. Check. Is that what you believe?
I believe that I don't know what it is you're referring to "receiving our requests from God," but if that's a reference back to our "hearts not condemning us, and we know that God is greater than our hearts," then, Check. I'm square there.
Or is it a reference to "keeping God's commands, meaning God lives in us and we in him," then, check!
God laying down God's life for us and us following that model? Check. Those who pour out their lives in service to humanity (and I know many of those), are you saying they get one of your check marks?
This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not God’s child, nor is anyone who does not love their brother and sister."
So, those who do what is right (ie, love their brother and sister, ie, love their neighbor, ie, love and ally with the least of these, over and over and over these themes are repeated by Jesus and echoed by John), then... check!
But is that what you're saying?
In other words, I'm not sure you affirm what you appear to affirm IF I find this teaching to be affirming what I think the bible affirms.
I don't know what you're trying to prove (if anything) with this post other than affirming that those who love are in God, which is what John says clearly later (and here) and what I've been saying is rational (NOT because these words that appear in the bible here, but just because it's rational given the notion of a loving God.)
Here we see John asserting that our status as "children of God" (those "born of God", perhaps) is entirely due to the Father lavishing His love on us, and not as a result of our loving of others
I don't know how I could be any more clear: I BELIEVE in salvation by God's grace, not by works. It's ENTIRELY due to God's "lavishing love on us," (ie, Grace), which is precisely what I've been saying.
I don't see how these words contradict the reasonable claims I've been suggesting as rational.
Same for the rest of this series of attempted tirades. I'm entirely unsure of your point, or the attempted point.
You doing okay, Craig?
Dan,
Since it's par for the course for you to ignore what I say, I can't be upset when you do as you usually do.
So, I'll try again and hope that you can understand.
I AM NOT even attempting to counter your eisegesis of some cherry picked prof texts in these posts. I AM merely pointing out that the entirety of the context of 1 John (I could obviously pull from the rest of John's writings, but this is sufficient to make my point) does NOT support your eisegesis of a few cherry picked proof texts taken out of context. The ONLY course you have available to you (if you want me to engage) is to demonstrate conclusively that the entire context of 1 John supports your conclusion which I quoted in the first installment.
FYI, when I used the term "check" in my post I was attempting to communicated that there was a "list" of texts that contradict your eisegesis or your cherry picked prof texts, and that I was metaphorically checking those items off the list.
There's no possible way that you can eisegete the majority of 1 John into your little box of loving the "poor/oppressed" by performing the actions you say must be performed, although I welcome you to try.
Therefore, because I told you that I wouldn't do so (and I value my integrity), I will not engage with your attempts to divert the subject away from your claims about 1 John based on a few out of context, cherry picked proof texts.
Dan insisting that his heart doesn't condemn him can just as easily confirm that God has given hm over to his corruption. I believe that to be the case. He doesn't feel condemned in his heart for promoting that which God calls "abomination/detestable". He doesn't feel condemned for enabling and defending murder. These are the two most egregious sins for which he feels no condemnation in his heart. It's not like he's sought forgiveness for these things, as he doesn't regard them as the sins they are.
I suspect that means you read his entire comment, I didn't. Although a quick sacn made me notice that his entire point is "If X really means the opposite of X or something incompatible with X, then of course I believe it.".
The apparent point of John regarding the heart condemning is that we are secure in the knowledge that we are His regardless of what our hearts tell us, and that we should trust in Him for our security rather than in our hearts. The problem is that Dan seems to be big on following his heart, and that his heart leads is always right because YHWH agrees with him and his subjective "reason".
Don't know if I read his entire comment. I just know that statement stood out. He would insist because his heart doesn't condemn him, he's all good. But the Bible doesn't regard the heart as a reliable measure, and in his case it suggests to me he's truly been given over by God to his corruption.
Well, you read more than I did. Although you are likely right, that he places more faith in his heart, reason, rationality, and innate goodness than the Bible seems to suggest is wise.
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