If I remember correctly we’ve experienced one political party/philosophy that has engaged in the following over the past decade.
Censorship
Forcing people to buy a product whether they wanted to or not.
Forcing people to get a “vaccine” or be punished.
Lying about the “vaccine” they forced people to get.
Extensive rioting/arson/destruction of billions of private property.
Doxxing Law Enforcement.
Threatening juries.
Threatening SCOTUS justices.
Judges overstepping their authority.
Imprisonment for silently praying in public or for "offensive" social media posts.
Just to name a few things, please add more in the comments.
Somehow this isn't authoritarian
32 comments:
No. Somehow it isn't reality.
In the meantime, Dan posts a description of authoritarianism without noting the irony of how much more closely it describes his own kind and the party he supports.
Censorship
Strong start. Yes, censorship and attacks on journalists ARE two warning signs regarding authoritarianism.
But from there, you derailed.
Forcing people to buy a product whether they wanted to or not.
Well, maybe, I guess, depending. But other than reqirements to have, for instance, car insurance, I'm not sure that happens. And requiring car insurance is not irrational or fascist.
Forcing people to get a “vaccine” or be punished.
Well, we've done this for years in... requiring children to have measles vaccines in order to go to school, for instance. Not authoritarian, on the face of it.
Here's a more apt list of authoritarian practices...
1 Politicize independent institutions.
2 Spread disinformation.
3 Aggrandize executive power.
4 Quash dissent.
5 Scapegoat vulnerable communities.
6 Corrupt elections.
7 Stoke violence
Can you acknowledge this is a reliable list?
If so, can you NOT see how, point after point, this administration has been rapidly running through these steps?
Oh, also, establishing a secretive police force, loyal to the strong man in charge. VERY typical in authoritarian regimes.
More of your list...
Extensive rioting/arson /destruction of billions of private property.
Citizens choose to protest and even "riot," may or may not be advisable, BUT, it is not authoritarianism. It's sort of the opposite of authoritarianism, in fact.
The difference would be a case where a strongman in power funds and encourages the rioting, as we saw on Jan 6.
Rational fail on this point.
Well Dan jumps in pretending as if he gets to define reality. Not a good start.
I’ve pointed that out several times, with examples. But been ignored.
So you agree that censorship is wrong, yet stayed silent as the Biden administration engaged in it.
Weak start.
Car insurance isn’t required of everyone in the country, only those who choose to own cars. Further, they have multiple options in terms of the extent of the coverage.
Weak again.
As long as exceptions exist for childhood vaccines, this is not the flex you think it is.
I’ve already addressed this list, and noted that virtually every single one is demonstrated by the left of late.
Even P-BO and Biden pushed executive action far beyond previous presidents. Governing by fiat and EO.
It’s a list, but it’s just the one you like better even though it describes the actions of the ASPL/DFL pretty accurately.
In what fantasy world is this happening?
FYI, the names of the Pretti shooters have been leaked and it’s unlikely that your white supremacist fears are accurate.
Well, I guess if Dan says so then it must be True.
But that “may not be advisable” is a strong condemnation of years and billions of left wing rioting.
As noted, CHAZ/CHOP/no go zones/check points are all illegitimate attempts to assert authority. Or when mobs use the threat of riots to pressure juries.
Nice lie about J6.
Another from your list:
Imprisonment for silently praying in public or for "offensive" social media posts.
1. I don't know that it's happening anywhere in the US, but this could certainly be a warning sign, IF it were happening. And yes, this administration HAS arrested, detained and abused religious folk protesting, including by singing songs and peacefully praying, but I think most of the time they were also trespassing in one way or another, so not necessarily a sign of authoritarianism, itself. Instead, that would be civil disobedience on the peaceful protesters' part and abuse of power in the case of the secret police who shoot, gas, abuse and arrest them with excessive violence.
Your list, I will note, is not a traditional list of traits of an authoritarian state, as defined by experts/scholars in the field. I've provided one. Here's another:
WHAT AUTHORITARIANS DO:
1. Attacks on Journalism and Information
Authoritarians seek to make the public doubt objective truth, enabling them to control the narrative.
2. Attacks on Outsiders (Scapegoating & Xenophobia)
To consolidate power, authoritarian leaders often define themselves against an "other" to unite their base.
3. Undermining Trust in Institutions & Journalism
By breaking down trust in independent, non-partisan institutions, the leader becomes the only trusted authority.
4. Secret Police & Violent Repression Tactics
The use of surveillance and intimidation ensures that opposition remains fragmented and afraid.
Your strongman wannabe HAS stepped through each of these traits. It would be easier to take any concerns you may have about authoritarianism IF you would clearly condemn your felon when HE practices common traits of authoritarianism.
1. I just posted a story elsewhere detailing one example from the Biden administration. Strangely enough it’s the same law that the church invaders are charged with. But I can see why you’d not want to be aware of this kind of thing. It’s also happened in Europe pretty regularly as well.
I was an aware that I was limited to a Dan approved list of examples of authoritarian behavior.
Fortunately I was able to draw from real life examples from just the past few years which were brought to us by P-BO and Biden. It makes more sense to me to pick real life examples than hypothetical or made up scenarios.
From your new official list.
1. When the MSM becomes a mouthpiece for one ideology, twists the Truth, or pushes false narratives, it only makes sense to point that out and to encourage independent journalists who aren’t beholden to anyone.
2. You’re just repeating the same old crap. I don’t think that you can comprehend that expecting people to follow the rules isn’t an attack on them.
3. You have this stupid habit of repeating bullet points as if a slight rephrasing somehow magically creates an entirely different point. That it’s just you being lazy is not a surprise either.
4. Again, more of your repetitive fantasies which have been addressed. This childish notion that you are entitled to know who every single federal LEO is, given the attacks on themselves and their families by leftists is also just plain stupid.
We now know, released or leaked, who shot Pretti. Your hunches were wrong and you were too impatient to wait.
But you keep your head in the sand if it helps.
I suspect that the things I referenced don’t strike Dan as authoritarian simply because he’s incapable of comprehending that the left could possibly act in an authoritarian manner. It’s not about anything but TDS.
Craig complained about Executive Orders as a sign of authoritarianism. Do you really want to go there??
Reagan
1980-1988 381 EO (42/year)
Bush i
1988-1992 166 EO (41/year)
1992-2000
Clinton 364 (40/year)
2000-2008
Bush is 288 (36/year)
2008-2016
Obama 277 (34/year)
2017-2021
Trump 220 EO (55/year)
2021-2025
Biden 162 EO (40/year)
2025/2026
Donald J. Trump: 232 EO (230/year)
By your measure (not a bad one) the GOP has always been more authoritarian, and this year, the Felon has ramped it WAAAAAY UP.
Thanks for making the case.
No. I question your list because, by and large, they don't rise to the level of authoritarianism as recognized by scholars of history and societies.
Again, expertise and reality and history matter.
Also, by your personal measure, most GOP and Democratic presidents have been authoritarian. It reduces the term down to meaninglessness.
"simply because he’s incapable of comprehending that the left could possibly act in an authoritarian manner"
As noted, I'm simply recognizing how scholars define it. Beyond that, there are, of course, leftists who leaned into authoritarians. Daniel Ortega, for instance. Hugo Chavez, perhaps.
Power corrupts left and right.
You'd possibly be correct, had I actually "complained" about EOs.
EO's are a part of the constitutionally guaranteed power of the executive branch. That Trump is recovering executive powers that previous administrations had given away isn't anything but exercising the delegated powers.
Well, If you and some random, unnamed "experts" don't think that actual examples of authoritarian actions engaged in by P-BO and Biden don't fit the arbitrary definition then clearly you must be right. Simply because you said so, or because you exclude things that don't help your "case".
I'm pointing out actual actions by DFL presidents which fit YOUR expert list. I'm not making a new, exhaustive list, I'm literally pointing out actual authoritarian actions by PBO and Biden which didn't have your panties in a wad at the time. While you make up bullshit about some mythical "secret police" while ignoring the reality you claim to define.
What's more, the list is vague...simply a list to "things", none of which he can honestly apply to policies of this administration, while we can and have shown how most all of it apples to Obama/Biden...with points 4-7 especially manifested in their presidencies.
A "secretive" police force with "ICE" boldly displayed on their uniforms. And again, so long as masked "decent moral progressives" violently protesting and doxxing ICE officers, only a disgrace embracing fake Christian from Jeff St would criticize their decision to withhold easy access to their identities.
It never fails. Dan indulges again in what he laughingly describes as "adult, respectful, good faith" discourse while in actuality indulging in just the opposite.
Well, I guess that's a step in the right direction. Although you left out Maduro.
I guess focusing on the actual actions of Biden and P-BO is where the problem lies.
FYI, unlike you, I've never tried to paint authoritarianism as a partisan issue. I have pointed out the reality that the last two DFL presidents and other DFL/ASPL folx have a recent track record of doing many/most of the things on your list. Of course you didn't complain until it was a Trump administration.
Dan doesn't really do much actual "adult, respectful, good faith, grace embracing himself. He just demands that others do so.
"I guess focusing on the actual actions of Biden and P-BO is where the problem lies."
You keep jabbering about Obama, Biden. They did not display authoritarian characteristics. That you imagine they did is meaningless.
That you imagine they did anything on that list just is an indication of your incapacity to understand the written language.
1 Politicize independent institutions.
2 Spread disinformation.
3 Aggrandize executive power.
4 Quash dissent.
5 Scapegoat vulnerable communities.
6 Corrupt elections.
7 Stoke violence
They did NONE of this (with the caveat that the spin that most politicians put on facts COULD be called "spreading disinformation, " but not really... it's a problem of scale and accountability).
You have zero proof of them being authoritarian by any of these measures.
Stop with the partisan slander and irrational claims. Be better.
"Of course you didn't complain until it was a Trump administration."
Because even the criminal and evil actions and policies of previous administrations - even the GOP ones - did not fit the definition/concept of authoritarianism.
Scholars, historians and just normal rational people are all seeing the authoritarian tendencies that are unique to this administration!
Open your eyes.
Joe Biden and Barack Obama as two more examples from the left. Still not understanding how it applies to Trump, regardless of how one feels about the guy.
This obsession you have with controlling the definition of things in order to pretend that anything that doesn’t fit your definition somehow doesn’t count is deeply disturbing.
This attempt to impose your hunches on others seems a bit authoritarian in and of itself.
I understand that this pretense is necessary to protect your narrative. I just don’t accept your authority to dictate definitions.
Dan’s efforts to ignore the reality of the authoritarian actions of P-BO and Biden is simply a desperate attempt to justify his TDS.
It must be comforting somehow to live in a world where you exert so much control over reality.
Because an administration that uses lies and coercion to force compliance couldn’t possibly be authoritarian because Dan says so. Absurd, delusional, narcissistic, and full of hubris.
In a general sense, Authoritarianism has no political side. Dan’s problem seems to be his inability to accept that two presidents he supported actually engaged in authoritarian policies and actions.
I think his problem with Trump is that Trump is actually using his constitutionally granted powers to be an executive. Further, Dan seems to think that Trump is the only president who built his cabinet with people who are committed to advancing his policies.
Dan is confusing using the constitutional authority allocated to the office of POTUS, which had been abdicated by previous presidents, with authoritarianism.
Post a Comment