Let's take a minute an wonder about something. Let's imagine a world where s "fraction" of outlier Christians manipulated Scripture to justify being commanded by Jesus to kill tens/hundreds of thousands of people, invade almost 60 countries and impose "Christian" law, ethnically cleanse those countries resulting in the killing of expulsion of non Christians. Forced non Christians who weren't killed or expelled to pay an onerous tax, oppressed women/children/non Christians, instituted the death penalty for homosexuality and apostasy, raped non Christian women at will, mutilated girls to destroy their ability to enjoy sex, and randomly blew innocent people up. What do we imagine that the response of the "majority" of Christians would be to this "minority"? What are the chances that the "majority"
of Christians would sit by and do nothing? That they would make excuses for their inaction? That they would not point out how those actions did not align with the teachings of YHWH?
Can you imagine a world where a "minority" of Christians actively destroyed the witness of the faith, and the majority didn't act to stop it?
Personally, I cannot. I cannot imagine a "minority" of Christians engaging in barbarism while the "majority" stood by and did nothing.
25 comments:
Craig:
I cannot imagine a "minority" of Christians engaging in barbarism while the "majority" stood by and did nothing.
He said, while voting for a many who keeps killing, abducting and harming people in a wide variety of ways, while standing by along with other conservative religionists and doing nothing.
You are the man, as the Prophet Nathan noted to David.
Having said that, let me be clear: I'm not a Muslim for a reason. The Islamic tradition is problematic for a wide range of reasons, not the least of which is the abuse and oppression of women, girls and LGBTQ folks by SOME PORTIONS of Muslim extremists. AND that too many Muslims are not speaking out against it.
But that's one of the differences between you and I: I recognize that not all Muslims are muslim extremists who abide with the oppression of some Christians, or women, or girls or LGBTQ folks, just like not all Christians are conservative Christian extremists who remain silent after the people they voted for engage in all manners of oppressions.
That the conservative Christian oppressions and abuses today do not reach the level of widespread harm that the extremist Muslim oppressions and abuses is of little consequence to me. "At least we're not as bad as Nazis or Muslim extremists" is a pretty pisspoor low bar to be proclaiming as an accomplishment.
Our religious extremists are HERE, now, in a country where I DO have some say and some responsibility to oppose directly.
Well, I guess I should have expected exactly this nonsense from you.
I do appreciate you agreeing with the premise of the post that millions/billions stand by silently as the majority of the 57 Muslim countries oppress women, children, gays, Christians, Jews and virtually every ethnic and religious minority. I guess you are aware of some of the evil Islam has provided.
Of course you simply make things up with no actual proof or even attempted proof.
But I appreciate your milqutoast half hearted condemnation of Islam, compared to your exaggerated attacks on Trump.
Let’s not forget your silence when P-BO deported and killed significantly more people illegal aliens than Trump, engaged in hundreds of drone strikes, and kept more kids in cages than Trump.
Living in your fantasy world must be special.
Too bad you didn’t actually answer the questions asked.
How widespread does a behavior have to be until you acknowledge that it’s not just “outliers/extremists/a minority”?
Craig...
"I do appreciate you agreeing with the premise of the post that millions/billions stand by silently as the majority of the 57 Muslim countries oppress women, children, gays, Christians..."
And yet,
While your president is an actual felon;
Who has actually boasted about sexually predatory actions towards women and girls;
Who has worked extremely hard to cover up the sexual abuse and pedophilia of his good friend, Epstein;
Whose administration has extrajudically killed hundreds;
Whose administration has harmed/terrorized millions...
You and your conservative religionist allies have remained silent.
THAT is the part you're ignoring.
At least David admitted his sin when he was called on it. Your pride is undoing you. YOU are that man.
Craig...
"How widespread does a behavior have to be until you acknowledge that it’s not just “outliers/extremists/a minority”?"
I have never tried to say how common the abusive/oppressive behaviors are for Muslims. I've just noted the simple reality that not ALL Muslims believe in the oppression endorsed by some/too many.
Just like I haven't placed a number on how many conservative religionists endorse or defend oppression by their president, I've just noted it's way too many.
The problem is, you can't or won't remove the plank from your eye in the face of the evil and oppression of your president.
You are that man.
Those comments were from me, Dan.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2%20Samuel%2012&version=NIV
As to answering your questions... you will hate and ignore the answers, but here they are...
"What do we imagine that the response of the "majority" of Christians would be to this "minority"? What are the chances that the "majority"
of Christians would sit by and do nothing?"
For approximately 1/3 of those Christians in OUR nation, the answer will be silenced, at best and full-throated defense of their oppressive leader, at worst.
The chances are good that roughly 1/3 of those Christians will ignore the abuses, "even if he shot someone dead in broad daylight" as your "profit" foretold, speaking of you.
Dan
Note how Dan isn't a muslim because of the falseness of the "religion" itself, but because so many are butchers and far too many more do nothing about it.
And hey, Craig! Did you vote for an oppressor? I know I didn't? What's this liar mean? I'm gonna guess that he means it's oppressive to enforce the law. It's not oppressive to off 800,000 conceived by yet unborn people. It's not oppressive to force millions to take an unproven drug under threat of termination of employment. It's not oppressive to subject one's own nation to the influx of drugs, human traffickers, murderous gangsters, child abusers, rapists and terrorists. It's not oppressive to force women to accept men in their women only spaces. But enforce the law??? How COULD we?
Art, good point. If it wasn’t for the oppression factor, Dan seems to say that he might be a Muslim. He’d be ok with the magic flying horse thing, or marrying 9 year old girls, but oppression is just too much.
I’m not ignoring anything. I’m also not accepting your lies either.
It’s apples and oranges, and you’re obsessed with Trump, who’ll be out of power in 3 years, but strangely not worried about 57 oppressive regimes throughout the world.
That you cling to this false narrative about Trump and Epstein despite the fact that both the files and reality demonstrate otherwise appears to simply be a monomaniacal Trump hatred.
Based on your above, it’s entirely likely that it’s 90% of Muslims who go along with the teachings of the Quran, and you’ll cling to the “not all”. Nice try.
Your obsession is showing.
I won’t ignore your nonsense, I will pity your monomaniacal obsession.
It’s hilarious that Dan isn’t bothered enough to do anything but make excuses when Muslim countries actually are oppressing and killing large numbers of people, but obsesses about Trump enforcing laws that have been on the books for decades at lower levels that P-BO did. But Dan didn’t complain about P-BO.
Here's a perfect instance where you demonstrate a subpar reading comprehension. I had said:
Having said that, let me be clear:
I'm not a Muslim for a reason.
The Islamic tradition is problematic
for a wide range of reasons,
not the least of which is the abuse and oppression of women, girls and LGBTQ folks by SOME PORTIONS of Muslim extremists. AND that too many Muslims are not speaking out against it.
Marshal and Craig responded with...
Note how Dan isn't a muslim because of the falseness of the "religion" itself, but because so many are butchers and far too many more do nothing about it.
I clearly noted that there were a wide range of reasons. And indeed, a group of religionists who allow/support oppression ARE following a false religion. As the apostle James noted: True religion supports the widows and orphans, the poor and oppressed...." (paraphrase from memory. )
And that sort of false religion is not limited to some in Islamic traditions.
Read for understanding, sirs.
Dan
There is no oppression by our current president, and Pervert Dan the Liar hasn't given fact-based examples of any.
Still no fact-based examples of "oppression" by our current president. Only desperate claims it exists. I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that Dan is still referring to law enforcement operations as examples of oppression, just as every lawbreaker does when held to account.
That's because Dan's "compassion" is theater and posturing. It's not sincere at all.
I understand that you have problems with sarcasm, snark, and hyperbole (unless you’re using hyperbole as an excuse), but your inability to comprehend those things isn’t my problem.
If Trump’s actions in enforcement of immigration laws is “oppressive”, then P-BO was significantly more “oppressive” yet we didn’t hear this crap from Dan during his 8 years.
The simple fact is that you only mentioned “oppression” as the reason you’re not Muslim. This could reasonably be interpreted to mean that if Islam could get a handle on that one thing, that you’d be all in.
I can see why the magic horsey story would appeal to you as long with the hatred for dogs.
Maybe there’s a theological reason that explains the “oppression”, and their insistence on imposing an Islamic theocracy in every country they conquer. Maybe the fact that there are Muslim leaders actively pushing for an Islamic takeover of the US and Western Europe should be something you’re aware of,
Craig:
It’s hilarious that Dan isn’t bothered enough to do anything but make excuses when Muslim countries actually are oppressing and killing large numbers of people
1. I've made no excuses. Period. It's a stupidly false claim and bullshit slander - the sort of thing that is contrary to biblical teachings for your magic rulebook type religionists.
I just tend to not comment on other country's problems/oppressions... JUST LIKE YOU don't typically comment on other nations and their oppression EXCEPT, sometimes, when the oppressor is Muslim (but not Jewish) OR the victims identify as some form of Christianity.
2. But here's your chance: In Christian-dominant nations like Uganda or Kenya, being gay is criminalized and thus, gay folk are oppressed by those nations. Also in many Muslim nations. Where are your posts condemning Christian nations oppressing gay folk?
Also, many of those Christian dominant nations in Africa have patriarchal laws that harm or oppress women. Where are your posts condemning that?
What's that? You're not "bothered enough" to complain when it's nominally Christian's doing the oppressing?
Well, of course, not. We see that here in your OWN nation, when you turn a blind eye to the oppressions and injustices of the conservative religionists' king.
And that you two are unaware of the oppression happening in this nation by your president is just proof of the point. It's happening. You don't see it.
START by removing the plank from your eyes.
You are the man.
1. Yet you’ve made multiple excuses for staying silent on what’s happening. Most recently your “it’s not here” excuse.
2. Coming from someone who rarely, if ever, specifically condemns Muslim atrocities, this is a cute way to deflect from your silence. I’ve been consistent for years about criminalizing homosexuality. I’ll gladly say right here and now that I disagree with any country that criminalizes homosexuality. That’s the difference between us, I have no reason to excuse or ignore things.
Given your vast knowledge (or what you learned in your quick google search) what is the punishment for being gay in those countries?
I’ll give you credit, instead of acknowledging your silence and excuses for the depredations of Islam, you attack me.
You do have one thing right, you’re making a false equivalence between Islamic theocratic regimes governing under Sharia, and “nominally” Christian countries who are not theocratic.
Apples/oranges.
Pot.
Marshal:
Did you vote for an oppressor? I know I didn't? What's this liar mean? I'm gonna guess that he means it's oppressive to enforce the law.
Yes. Yes, you both did. Repeatedly, but certainly in 2024.
This idiot conman has had his people...
KILL two innocent protesters. Protesting is not punished by death. THAT is oppression.
Abduct untold numbers of people for questionable cause - the vast majority of which were not criminals and certainly not violent criminals. THAT is oppression.
Used children to try to abduct innocent people. THAT is oppression.
Created an atmosphere of fear and terror - ie, literally terrorism - by his racist profiling to stop and pick up and abduct/disappear people for being Latino or looking foreign. THAT is oppression.
Repeatedly blocked and attacked efforts to release files related to sexual predators and pedophiles. THAT is oppression.
Demonized LGBTQ folks. THAT is oppression - something that Muslim extremists, Christian extremists and Nazis all have in common.
Attacked and demonized the free press. THAT is oppression and part of the path of authoritarians.
Literally committed extrajudicial executions of people in international waters. No jury. No trial. No chance to surrender. NO PROOF that they were actually drug dealers AND EVEN IF THEY WERE (doubtful), that is not a capitol offense. THAT is oppression.
That you are blind to the oppression or ignorant of WHY it is oppression doesn't change the reality.
And on it goes and you all remain silent and complicit.
As long as the term "oppressor" as it relates to Trump remains undefined, this is just Dan engaged in slander.
Trump did not order the deaths of two protesters. Neither were the protesters "innocent", in the sense that they played no part in the events that led to their deaths.
Well, let's start with the fact that P-BO "abducted" significantly more and killed significantly more while enforcing the exact same laws Trump is enforcing. I guess that makes P-BO an "oppressor" too, right? The "due process" for anyone who enters the US illegally is deportation, so simply enforcing the appropriate "due process" for the violation is not "oppression". I've posted, and will continue to post the toll of the Biden administration's immigration policies combined with a "justice" system that releases people with multiple felonies onto the streets to offend again. Still not oppression.
I can't take unproven bullshit like this seriously.
Speaking as someone who's been on the streets, in the neighborhoods, where all of this terror is allegedly happening, I can say that I haven't seen it. I'll simply note that if you have violated US immigration law and believe that you might get the appropriate "due process", then some degree of fear is appropriate.
When you insist on spewing conspiracy theories that literally contradict observable reality, your commitment to a narrative over Truth shows through. Up to this point, only one POTUS has authorized the release of the Epstein files.
WTF? Trump is probably the most pro LGB president the GOP has ever elected.
Yeah, criticizing the MSM who've shown an increasing tendency to fail at their primary purpose is a horrible thing. Yet, the MSM still exist. They haven't had their FCC licenses revoked, haven't been forced to censor dissenting viewpoints (that was Biden), and Trump has done more interviews, press conferences, and press availabilities than Biden, despite the MSM being solidly opposed to him.
P-BO killed more people with drone strikes than Trump has, including at least on family of US citizens.
The problem with your list is that so much of it simply does not comport with reality, and if highlights your silence about some of the same things you now call "oppression" during the P-BO and Biden administrations.
If Trump was the oppressor you claim, we wouldn't have had to deal with weeks of idiots protesting and engaging in illegal actions here in the TC.
I believe that it is safe to say that the Islamic Government in Iran is one of the top 5 most "oppressive" governments on earth. Yet the UN, and organization Dan seems very enamored with recently congratulated them on the violent overthrow of the previous legitimate government and was named vice chair of the UN Commission for Social Development. This body is intended to promote democracy, gender equality, tolerance and non-violence. Given the Iranian regime's total opposition to all of those things, it seems strange that the UN would honor them in such a way.
If you want to see oppression, look at the tens of thousands of protesters who were killed for peacefully protesting. Or take a look at what the Iranian regime has done to Melika Azizi. Look at how a real "oppressive" regime works, then compare and contrast.
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