There's a wonderful photo going around that shows a small group of people holding a handmade banner which reads "Queers for Palestine" signed by the "Queer Pride Collective" with a Palestinian flag and a pride flag. One is forced to wonder if these folx even understand the irony of their banner. I think that a GoFundMe should be set up so that they can emigrate to Palestine and see how Hamas treats them as a reward for their support.
Monday, October 9, 2023
Irony
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22 comments:
You find it ironic that a group of historically oppressed people would support, want the best for another group of historically oppressed people, even though the laws and attitudes of the Palestinian state (the laws being inherited from British colonial days, although the attitudes are real and current) might do them wrong...?
So, you can't envision a group not wanting to see others oppressed, even though those same "others" might oppress them?
You see, what I have found is that many/most LGBTQ folk are quite Christ-like in their capacity to show love even towards those who'd do them wrong. So, I don't find it ironic or hard-to-believe at all.
Oppressed groups understand oppression and don't want even their enemies to be oppressed.
Dan
"You find it ironic that a group of historically oppressed people would support, want the best for another group of historically oppressed people, even though the laws and attitudes of the Palestinian state (the laws being inherited from British colonial days, although the attitudes are real and current) might do them wrong...?"
Yes, I do find it ironic that a group of people are supporting another group of people who would put them to death if they lived among those they support. That they support a people who would and do oppress "Queers" on a regular basis. The fact that the oppression of "Queers" in Gaza has absolutely nothing to do with British law, and everything to do with Sharia law, seems relevant. The fact that there has never actually been an independent nation of Palestine seems germane as well. The fact that the Arab nations (as identified at the time) rejected the "two state" solution in 1946, and responded by launching a war of extermination against Israel also seems germane.
"So, you can't envision a group not wanting to see others oppressed, even though those same "others" might oppress them?"
I don't have to "envision" it, I can see it with my own two eyes. Yet the irony of an "oppressed" group supporting an "oppressor" group, while the group they support is identified as a terrorist group and is in the process of killing, maiming, kidnapping, and desecrating innocent people is a bit ironic. Especially given the status of the Jews as being an "oppressed" group themselves.
"You see, what I have found is that many/most LGBTQ folk are quite Christ-like in their capacity to show love even towards those who'd do them wrong. So, I don't find it ironic or hard-to-believe at all."
1. As usual, I don't care what you claim to have "found" based on your insular, small, liberal bubble.
2. The fact that you choose to cover ignorance with bullshit is fascinating.
"Oppressed groups understand oppression and don't want even their enemies to be oppressed."
What a convoluted, absurd, self serving, pile of bullshit.
Indeed, Dan is a liar. There's nothing "Christ-like" in the supposed "capacity to show love even toward those who'd do them wrong", when the reality is that this alleged "capacity" is a sham intended to draw sympathy toward their willful embrace of perversion. If they posture as "forgiving", they can get morons like Dan to go along with the pretense...though Dan is just pretending to be a moron in this case, since he embraces the perversion, too.
But there is a parallel between the pervs and the murderers: Their "oppression" has always been the result of their behaviors, neither of which has any basis in Judeo-Christian teaching and both of which is roundly prohibited by it. To be "oppressed" for engaging in vile sin is not an "oppression" which draws sympathy from the truly faithful. Rather, the sympathy...should any exist...is for how oppressed these people are by sin, enslaved to it to the point of public rebuke. That rebuke is well deserved.
For both these groups, all "oppression" will disappear when the indulgence in evil by these groups is rejected by them.
The REAL oppressed group are the Israelis, who have been oppressed for thousands of years. They came back to their homeland, coming from world-wide oppression, to form their nation anew and they've never stopped being oppressed.
The "Palestinians" were never, ever a nations and, as Muslims, have always oppressed Jews/Israel/Christians.
These "oppressed" Muslims are cowards who did not go after military targets but civilians. They butchered babies, innocent children and women (many of whom were raped before executed). THIS is the real Islam that oppresses everyone who isn't a Muslim.
Dan just proved his abject ignorance of history and of Islam all the while support the barbaric actions of a people who are pawns of Satan.
Glenn,
It's strange that the left seems content to ignore the loooooong history of oppression of Jews, along with the persistent stereotypes of a Jewish cabal the runs the banking industry, when the nation of Israel (which is NOT exclusively Jewish) is required to defend itself. Only when it comes to Jewish folk is a decades long promise to exterminate them considered acceptable, or at least ignored.
Islam does have a pretty well documented history of oppression, doesn't it?
There have been HUNDREDS of innocent women and children killed by Israel in the last two days, with many more, no doubt, to come. No protections for hospitalized Palestinian children, even.
The modern conservative movement is showing clearly that they have no consistent moral values, only partisan allegiances, even in the face of killing children.
Dan
It's strange that the left seems content to ignore the loooooong history of oppression of Jews
Proof? Or are you okay with making unsupported and stupidly false claims and, in the process, slandering good people, including Jewish people?
Of course, Jewish folk have a long history of being oppressed - including even today, by those conservatives in the US who demonize Jewish leaders for being too progressive. As well as by some in groups like Hamas.
along with the persistent stereotypes of a Jewish cabal the runs the banking industry
Yes, it's true that many conservatives paint a stereotype of Jewish folk of being rich and powerful bankers and hollywood types in a cabal to molest children, but you're not speaking of THAT sort of abuse of Jewish folk, are you?
Can you cite EVEN ONE place where a progressive has said that Jewish people can't/shouldn't defend themselves? Or are you fine with passing on grade school slander and unsupported, stupidly false claims?
Yes, many Muslim and Christian extremists have a well-documented history of oppression. The enemy, though, is not Islam or Christianity. It's fundamentalists in both groups.
"Proof? Or are you okay with making unsupported and stupidly false claims and, in the process, slandering good people, including Jewish people?"
Simple observation.
"Of course, Jewish folk have a long history of being oppressed - including even today, by those conservatives in the US who demonize Jewish leaders for being too progressive. As well as by some in groups like Hamas."
1. Pointing out that American Jews tend to vote DFL isn't oppression, it's demographics.
2. Look, Dan's ignorance of Hamas is showing. He's pretending that there is a moderate faction of Hamas that's been taken over by an extremist majority. It's an old dodge, but not a good one.
3. I'll simply note that Dan chose to mention one made up example "oppression", the one that's in the news, and no others.
4. It's strange that folx like Dan believe that the GOP is in the pocket of the Israel lobby, while simultaneously believing that conservatives are significantly anti Semitic.
"Yes, it's true that many conservatives paint a stereotype of Jewish folk of being rich and powerful bankers and hollywood types in a cabal to molest children, but you're not speaking of THAT sort of abuse of Jewish folk, are you?"
No, I'm speaking of actual oppression, genocide, and the like. Not idiotic bullshit left over from the 1500's.
"Can you cite EVEN ONE place where a progressive has said that Jewish people can't/shouldn't defend themselves? Or are you fine with passing on grade school slander and unsupported, stupidly false claims?"
Just a plethora of leftist groups cheering on Hamas, painting a false equivalency between Hamas and the IDF, and groups of leftists (conservatives certainly wouldn't do this) chanting "Gas the Jews".
"Yes, many Muslim and Christian extremists have a well-documented history of oppression. The enemy, though, is not Islam or Christianity. It's fundamentalists in both groups."
This notion that there is something more than a bare minimum of surface similarity in your mind between these two groups, simply demonstrates my point. Which "conservative" christian group has engaged in a military attack on another country, butchered non combatants, and celebrated it's accomplishment?
"There have been HUNDREDS of innocent women and children killed by Israel in the last two days, with many more, no doubt, to come. No protections for hospitalized Palestinian children, even."
If you mean that the "palestinian" children that might be hospitalized in a hospital used by Hamas as a shield, you may be correct. Otherwise, prove your claim? The bigger question is, if your claim is True, why is Egypt so heartlessly ignoring these children?
"The modern conservative movement is showing clearly that they have no consistent moral values, only partisan allegiances, even in the face of killing children."
This is quite an impressive bit of fantasy here. Conservatives aren't the one's cheering for Hamas. It's folx like you who are making excuses for the barbarism on display.
"If ANYONE knowingly and deliberately bombs a hospital full of innocents, then they are responsible for their actions. Period."
Interesting notion. Murderers hide behind innocent women and children in a hospital and you absolve them of any responsibility for their actions.
"What's strange is that you have to ask."
What's strange is that vile, murdering, evil people intentionally hide behind women, children, and hospital patients and you don't seem bothered by it in the least.
"What's become of modern conservatism? Or is it the case they've always been like this (Hiroshima?)"
You see, when you make ignorant comments like this it just reinforces my conclusion that you know very little of the history, and base all of your assertions on emotion and partisan bias.
"This is quite an impressive bit of fantasy here. Conservatives aren't the one's cheering for Hamas."
Speaking of fantasy, you can see from our words that progressives like me and Democrats like Biden are condemning these attacks by Hamas.
Don't make stupidly false claims, son. Get out of your fantasy world.
Dan
Craig's feverish fantasy...
"folx like you who are making excuses for the barbarism on display."
Reality:
"Yes, many Muslim and Christian extremists have a well-documented history of oppression."
And...
"we strenuously oppose this despicable attack on innocent people in Israel. Of course, we always and consistently oppose any harm or oppression of innocent people."
And...
"The United States unequivocally condemns this appalling assault against Israel by Hamas terrorists from Gaza" (Joe Biden)
You see, reality is we do NOT make excuses for Hamas. We condemn them. We're consistent that way.
Now, for the last time, be clear and take a stand: will you or will you not condemn consistently ALL who would deliberately target and kill civilians, women and children?
Stop with the cowardly dodges. Are you consistently opposed to it or will you make excuses when it's politically, partisanly convenient for you?
I think you've given your answer.
"Murderers hide behind innocent women and children in a hospital and you absolve them of any responsibility for their actions."
More fantasy and stupidly false claims. We do not absolve Hamas of anything. We're just being morally and rationally consistent. Something you refuse to do.
Dan
I have to give Dan credit. He could have gone on his blog or FB and threw together a post decrying the barbarity of Hamas and their latest unprovoked attack. Instead he simply stuck with his silence on the atrocities.
"You see, reality is we do NOT make excuses for Hamas. We condemn them. We're consistent that way."
Given the number of leftists making excuses for or cheering for Hamas and it's barbarities, this statement seems a bit overblown. But that's Dan, always hiding behind some mythical "we". Yet, even in his condemnation, he has to draw false equivalencies to "christian" groups or some other groups that have done nothing compatible to the barbaric actions of Hamas.
"Now, for the last time, be clear and take a stand: will you or will you not condemn consistently ALL who would deliberately target and kill civilians, women and children?"
No. I don't waste my time with these meaningless, vague, blanket, condemnations. I'm reasonable enough to understand that the Hamas barbarities of intentionally killing, raping, mutilating, and kidnapping innocent women and children, are automatically precisely equal to every other situation where women and children are harmed.
"Stop with the cowardly dodges. Are you consistently opposed to it or will you make excuses when it's politically, partisanly convenient for you?"
From the expert in cowardly dodges, this is rich indeed.
"I think you've given your answer."
Yes, I have. I am able to distinguish between situations and make judgements based on those situations rather than construct some one size fits all vague condemnation to hide behind.
"More fantasy and stupidly false claims. We do not absolve Hamas of anything. We're just being morally and rationally consistent. Something you refuse to do."
Really, you literally did not say one even remotely condemnatory thing about those vile animals who hide behind the wounded, sick, and injured in order to escape the consequences of their actions. Just vague, bland, generalities as if the implied equivalency will hide your silence.
"Speaking of fantasy, you can see from our words that progressives like me and Democrats like Biden are condemning these attacks by Hamas."
1. I also see the words and actions of those on your side who are cheering Hamas on and chanting for the Jews to be gassed.
2. I literally have not heard you say one condemnatory thing about Hamas without adding some perceived equivalency to your statement.
3. Seriously, the fact that you haven't yet made as specific and emphatic statement about Hamas and their recent actions, without tacking on some made up bullshit, tells us plenty.
Please, show me one instance of a "conservative" "christian" "extremist" group engaging in anything remotely similar to what's happened over the last week.
"Don't make stupidly false claims, son. Get out of your fantasy world."
When reality becomes fantasy, and Truth becomes falsehood, we've got problems.
I can't help but notice that I have a whole post of questions about the actions of Hamas, and you've chosen not to answer any of them.
Sorry,
Dan seems to believe that is SOME leftists decry what Hamas is doing, that he can then conclude that NO leftists are doing anything else. I guess that's what happens when you regularly conflate your individual, personal hunches and (in)actions with those of everyone else you perceive is in your group.
"1. I also see the words and actions of those on your side who are cheering Hamas on and chanting for the Jews to be gassed."
Mm-hm. Bullshit much?
Look, MAYBE there crazies out there like that, but to suggest thos is anything commonly accepted is just unmitigated bullshit.
Wipe your mouth, son.
Dan
"Mm-hm. Bullshit much?"
Mmmmmmmmmm-Hmmmmmmmmm. No, not very much at all. We live in a world where everything ends up on video, and it's hard to hide.
"Look, MAYBE there crazies out there like that, but to suggest thos is anything commonly accepted is just unmitigated bullshit."
Look, there are DEFINITELY people out there doing exactly this. The fact the you choose to define them as "crazies" and minimize their actions doesn't stop the reality. You have this habit of exaggerating the numbers of anything on the fringe right, and minimizing the numbers on the fringe left. You can't have it both ways, either you excuse everyone on every fringe, no matter what side they're on, or you can criticize your fringe as vehemently as you criticize the right.
"Wipe your mouth, son."
What a stupid, absurd, thing to say.
There's far less which is "fringy" from the left. Most of the "fringe" right are merely those who won't compromise on truth, such as the truth that abortion and homosexual behavior is always evil. But we don't go killing and rioting over such things. The left riots at the drop of a hat.
Worse, while Dan pretends lefties don't tolerate evil as blatant as that of Hamas, the left constantly pretends there's a moral equivalence between the islamic world and their constant targets, the Jews. The constant flow of dollars to islamic-majority nations by the West is what fuels terrorism. Trump showed how cutting funding to Iran drove them to real economic problems. Then the moron Dan the moron thought was morally superior to Trump helped to revitalize Iran by reaffirming Obama's suicidal Iran Nuclear Deal, and now earmarked $6 billion for a prisoner swap, pretending that doesn't free up money to spend on killing Jews and Americans.
This notion that conservatives have been railing about Jewish bankers and such is laughable. The worst detractors of Jews, be they right-wing or left, is by leftists of all kinds. Leftist blacks, now most openly BLM, physically attack Jews and decry control Jews allegedly have. The Klan...long an arm of the Dem party...is notorious for their Jew hatred.
So basically what we're seeing here is Dan willfully, consciously and intentionally lying again about conservatives, Israel and us.
But let me say this for myself, so that my personal position is not unclear: I don't find it to be problematic that at some point Israel...or our nation...might be compelled to "target" women, children, hospitals, schools or places of worship, if bad actors continue to launch attacks from behind them. To suffer the deaths of one's own women and children, or the destruction of one's own hospitals, schools or places of worship (or really, any other properties for that matter) in order to prevent harming the women and children, and properties, of enemies like the islamists is not Christian. It's suicide which is decidedly unChristian. These vile bastards clearly hate others more than they love their own people. I will never sacrifice our own for theirs. Never.
Finally, as you've pointed out, Dan has again chosen to minimize the evil of his kind (and Hamas supporters are his kind indeed) while hyping the slightest misstep by those who aren't his kind as if those missteps are outrageous. This is another of his purposeful lies, stated consciously in order to deceive.
Dan's a joke, a fraud and a Christ-hater. We can know this by his fruit.
Somewhere in one of these threads, Dad tried to play the nukes card. The problem with the nukes card, is that the leaders of Japan were notified of what was coming. They had multiple opportunities to avoid being nuked, they CHOSE to sacrifice thousands of their subjects because they believed surrender was shameful.
Likewise, the residents of Gaza or The Golan Heights, or literally any Arab/palestinians that have been killed or wounded since 1948 have only their own leadership to blame for it. Can anyone honestly say that the IDF wasn't going to respond to an act of war and barbarity? Seriously, place responsibility where it belongs.
Dan can't do that without indicting his own, thereby admitting they are the greater of two evils, if we're to presume both are evil. I don't. His side is evil.
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