I guess if you don't call it gerrymandering, no one will notice.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/01/30/redistricting-new-york/?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=wp_main
It's strange that I've been told that gerrymandering is a GOP practice, almost exclusively, yet we've now seen two egregious (although the DFL was apparently disappointed that NY didn't go further in their favor) examples of the DFL blatantly gerrymandering.
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It seems to me that the basic idea of drawing such maps is simply to group people together in equal amounts necessary for representation. That is, if the rule is there must be one representative for every ten thousand people, then a state with one million should have 100 districts, each with then thousand people. The division necessary to get those 100 districts should be as simply drawn as possible. If it would be possible to create 100 squares, then so be it. This link seems to follow the basic principle for the most part:
https://www.ncsl.org/research/redistricting/redistricting-criteria.aspx
Any time a party seeks to draw the map in a way to favor their own party, they've run afoul of basic fairness. If the basic rule results in a Dem heavy state, so be it, so long as no consideration for the politics of the people divvied up came into play.
In determining which party is drawing maps for political advantage, one must go back as early as possible to the beginning to see how maps were drawn and what the next drawing sought to do. At some point, one will find one party acting unethically (likely the Dems who have no problem cheating in elections) with the other party attempting to correct the foul.
"It's strange that I've been told that gerrymandering is a GOP practice, almost exclusively..."
It's strange. I've never read one article on this topic that EVER claimed it was "almost exclusively" a GOP practice. I suspect this is just another false and unsupported claim by people who are trying to tear down the media. People acting in a very Trumpian, corrupt and dishonest manner.
But by all means, cite your sources.
Here is the GOP gerrymandering in Texas and N Carolina...
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2021/nov/12/gerrymander-redistricting-map-republicans-democrats-visual
Here's the NY Times making it clear that it's a practice carried out by both parties but, currently at least, "predominantly by Republicans"... Which to be clear, is not the same as exclusively, or even "almost exclusively." (In case you're unclear: Predominant means present as the strongest or main element, whereas exclusive means, well, you know what it means.)
"The flood of gerrymandering, carried out by both parties but predominantly by Republicans, is likely to leave the country ever more divided by further eroding competitive elections and making representatives more beholden to their party’s base."
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/15/us/politics/republicans-2022-redistricting-maps.html
That you can find TWO (oh my!) entire cases of Democrats doing it, too - which every news article I read points out - doesn't mean that the GOP is not doing it more. Indeed, if the point is you can ONLY find two cases of Democrats doing it, then you're validating what election watchers are warning us about: That the GOP is gerrymandering far and wide, predominantly being the ones trying to overturn the will of the people.
Also, it should be noted that the GOP is not just trying to limit Democrat votes/voices, they're specifically targeting (at least in some cases) specifically black votes and voices, which makes it even more despicable and another reason why black people tend to be opposed to GOP and GOP policies. And why wouldn't they?!
https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/analysis-opinion/gop-redistricting-loophole
Also, they're trying it in Ohio...
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/14/us/politics/ohio-supreme-court-congressional-maps-gerrymandering.html
And in my own state of Kentucky...
https://www.kentucky.com/news/politics-government/article257595003.html
But you DID manage to find TWO places where Democrats did it, too. Validating the news reports that it happens on both sides.
Again, at least on this, you and I agree: Partisan gerrymandering should be ruled against and especially in cases where it's done in a manner that further dilutes the historically disenfranchised votes of people of color.
It's strange that your response boils down to, "The other guys are doing it.". It's strange that in you somehow haven't managed to specifically condemn the DFL for engaging in this heinous practice.
We might "agree", but at least I'm not trying to excuse the instances where the GOP engages in it, or play semantic games with news stories to obfuscate the fact that it's gerrymandering.
Just to be clear. The point of the post was that there is a newspaper that chose to play semantic games with the headline of a story to avoid using the more pejorative term "gerrymandering".
1. Making the point that both Dan, and the partisan media are willing to obfuscate to further the goals of the DFL.
2. Again, noting Dan's inability to specifically condemn the actions of NY and MD.
When I see conservative news sources describing GOP redistricting as legitimate cases of gerrymandering, then I'll consider that the GOP is willfully and intentionally redistricting with the same power grabbing purpose as the Dems do just about every time they have the ability to affect redistricting. Until then, I maintain the GOP more generally seeks to restore district maps to a more equitable state, where a look at a map shows more box- or circle-like divisions of the population, not the typical Dem snake around to gather as many Dem voters as possible maps so common in states like Illinois.
Dems whine about GOP gerrymandering when their own gerrymandered districts are straightened out.
Craig... "It's strange that your response boils down to, "The other guys are doing it.".
What Dan ACTUALLY said... " Partisan gerrymandering should be ruled against and especially in cases where it's done in a manner that further dilutes the historically disenfranchised votes of people of color."
Not sure what part of "We should create rules to prevent this" you're misunderstanding.
Marshal... "Dems whine about GOP gerrymandering when their own gerrymandered districts are straightened out."
Another stupidly false and unsupported claim. We complain about gerrymandering all the time, at least, some of us do. And the reason we complain is when the will of the majority is being thwarted. That is, if an area is majority Democrat but has been carved up so that republicans win the election, contrary to the will of the people... That's a problem. It should be a problem for everyone. It's a problem when the democrats do it and it's a problem when the GOP does it. And it's especially a problem they do it to deny or depress the voice of minority populations.
Yes, Dan did say that, but then mitigated the force of that cherry picked quote by saying essentially "the other guys did it".
You literally had an entire comment devoted to 3 instances where the GOP, did it. Yet one CYA line (which still isn't a specific condemnation of DFL gerrymandering or of the misleading headline that's the point of the post), is supposed to overcome the majority of your comments.
"What Dan ACTUALLY said... " Partisan gerrymandering should be ruled against and especially in cases where it's done in a manner that further dilutes the historically disenfranchised votes of people of color.""
Where's that been done in recent history and where has that been done when it wasn't Dems who were doing it? I'll wait here not holding my breath while you don't answer.
"Another stupidly false and unsupported claim. We complain about gerrymandering all the time, at least, some of us do."
It seems to me that "stupidly false and unsupported claims" can be proven as such with honest counters replete with evidence backing it up. And as Craig pointed out, you haven't even chosen to limit your complaints here about Dem gerrymandering. My statement stands as I live in a county which is known for the type of redistricting which has given the process a bad name thanks to the Dems who have done such a wonderful job making Illinois among the top three states from which people are fleeing.
Art,
I should have gone back and checked Dan's actual quote. It's not the first time he's contradicted himself.
It's strage that for someone who complains abut gerrymandering "all the time" that he's been silent until now on the current wave of gerrymandering going on.
Maybe he didn't mean complaining on the blogs. He's free to link to the posts where he may have.
I've checked his FB and his blog, and haven't seen anything that appears to fit. It might be buried in a comment thread though.
I've considered that. Likely done under pressure, which isn't uncommon for him.
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