Recently Carnival Cruise Lines updated their rules around personal conduct while on their ships. For some reason this has become a controversy.
Let's start with the basics. The ships belong to Carnival, they paid for them, and pay the expenses to keep them operating properly. In general, the social contract many claim exists, has held that the owner of a property has the right to set expectations for how guests behave on their property. I doubt any of us would stand by if a guest in our home got drunk and trashed the place, would we? So it seems reasonable that Carnival would be able to establish some behavioral guidelines for those who are temporarily on their ships, doesn't it? Beyond that, when you are on a boat with 3,000 other people isn't there some degree of common courtesy that should kick in? Should you not restrict your behavior to the point that it doesn't prevent others from enjoying their vacation?
So, what are these horrible rules.
1. 1 AM curfew for anyone under 17 not accompanied by an adult.
2. A minimum age for "solo cruisers" of 21 years of age.
3. A ban on "Clack Fans" in certain areas of the ship.
4. No saving pool chairs.
5. A ban on all drugs including weed.
6. A ban on Bluetooth speakers (I think limited to public places)
7. It also seems as if they've required that any request to remove automatic gratuities be handled in person.
8. Stricter enforcement of the 15/day alcoholic drink limit for those with the drink package.
9. There are rumors of a "rap ban". Given the presence of rap in popular culture since the '80s I find it hard to believe. Having said that, I personally don't enjoy much rap music and would prefer to hear more variety. I do think that it's not unreasonable, in public areas with small children, that there are certain songs (rap or otherwise) that might not be appropriate.
For some reason there is a massive backlash among certain demographics of cruisers around these seemingly commonsense rules. There are ample videos circulating of behavior that seems to more than justify this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujxmg5A2sMA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9HpZoPTMzk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSOhOYAYsKc
There are plenty of these out there, but the above are a few examples.
So, why are some black cruisers the angriest about these changes? Good question. Is there a subculture of American blacks that doesn't believe that the rules apply to them? Is there a subculture of American blacks that doesn't seem to care about how their actions affect others?
Ultimately what is about certain subcultures that seem to believe or act as if they believe that they are exempt from social norms. When I drive through certain parts of the city, I've noticed a tendency of some people to walk or ride in ways that are oblivious to others (usually with headphones). For example, the person who slowly crosses a street (legally or not) with no apparent awareness of their surroundings. Or the skateboarder who slowly weaves back and forth across an entire street as cars back up behind.
To be very clear, this IS NOT A RACE thing. It's a CULTURE thing. More accurately, it's a SUBCULTURE thing.
It is crazy to think that expecting people to behave in a public place as if they understand and respect the fact that their behavior might effect others. You know, treat others as you would like to be treated.
https://x.com/masinelije/status/1950173299704570076?s=51&t=cLq01Oy84YkmYPZ-URIMYw
It's exactly this kind of thing that I'm talking about. Watch the video and try to justify the behavior. Had a white woman done this to someone steeped in "hood culture" she'd have gotten the crap beaten out of her.
https://www.instagram.com/reel/DKnKzf4y0gm/?igsh=MTJlejNjbTFpMnl6Yg==
7 comments:
Dan,
Let me get this out right now. If you come on here spouting vague bullshit about racism, you're comments will not be posted.
If you have an explanation for why a certain subculture should be exempt from basic societal norms, and be able to overreact to attempts to get those individuals to conform, that'd be great.
FYI, this goes way beyond Carnival. Watch body cam videos of shoplifters caught in the act who act as if the law doesn't apply to them, or people stopped for traffic violations who refuse to follow the laws requiring ID and insurance. Let alone the videos where people are beaten senseless for "saying something racist". It's strange that we don't see these behaviors from other subcultures, and that this subculture crosses racial lines.
You've been warned!
Brandon Tatum just had a snippet of his podcast on YouTube a week or so ago and he was addressing this very problem. He showed a video of blacks behaving badly and questioned why any of them think it's acceptable. Worse, he lamented that it happens at all so frequently wherever there are larger groups of blacks and that he has requested that anyone provide examples of whites doing the same thing.
Now, I know from personal history that chaos could ensue between a handful of people at Italian/Polish weddings. Hasn't happened in my family where I've ever been around, but the stories used to be common. But the type of thing we see in the videos is not at all common to my knowledge. The late Colin Flaherty did yoeman's work in chronicling the many cases of such things in his books and at his website. He offered $10,000 to anyone who could produce a white version of the videos he would present over and over again.
I agree that it is a subculture thing, as I don't believe every black person tolerates such behavior, welcomes it or legitimizes it in any way. But indeed, there does seem to be a rather militant disregard for rules of law, civility and propriety and the demand that this disregard be respected as within their rights. It's sad.
Craig, I had literally no opinion on this, but you bring me into it with your comment above, so...
So, why are some black cruisers the angriest about these changes? Good question. Is there a subculture of American blacks that doesn't believe that the rules apply to them?
1. I have no problem with the rules. There is nothing racist or inherently wrong in them (although the ban on rap seems a bit pointed). People can see the rules and go or not.
2. That there are some black people (at least three, I guess, since you cited three videos) who are unhappy with this, to me, simply means that there are at least three black people unhappy enough with it that they posted, I guess. Beyond that, some people presumably protesting online who are presumably black, doesn't mean a thing.
3. However, some white people POINTING to some black people protesting, as if it were significant or representative of some special black "subculture" unique to black people (never mind that perhaps some white people might be unhappy with the rules) does seem a bit... odd.
Why bother?
Now, I GET that some racists might want to point to something like this as some kind of sign of black inferiority, but why would someone who is NOT racist waste time pointing to it?
It's a reasonable question with no hidden agenda.
Since you brought me into this nothing story.
Art,
I think that this important thing with this is that it's not about the "blacks, Italians, or Polish" (as you note) as much as it is about certain subcultures within those larger groups. It's also important to note that you'd hope to see the larger group reining in these subcultures.
As I noted, much of this behavior crosses "racial" lines, and is more aligned with "hood" subculture. As we saw in Cincinnati last weekend, a white couple were beaten senseless by a group of blacks because (maybe) the white guy slapped one of the black guys. There is no possible way to justify this massive overreaction, yet those on the left are trying to do so,
It seems as though there is a subculture that believes that they are entitled to live their lives without regard to those around them, laws, rules, or social norms, and if anyone pushed back their response is violence, screaming, and tantrums.
1. That's great, I'm proud of you. If you, someone who's quicker than many to cry "racism" can understand this, why are so many others failing to grasp this simple notion? Although the "rap ban" isn't really a ban, more of a perceived ban. As I noted, as someone who's been on a few cruises, when I'm in a public space I'd prefer the public music to be more mainstream, and mostly unoffensive. It's not so much about my musical tastes as it is about respect for others. I wouldn't want to be at the pool and have Swedish black metal blasting out of the speakers any more than I'd want to hear most rap.
2. Well played. That you choose to speak from ignorance as if these three videos (which aren't limited to one per video) and pretend that the outcry isn't larger is cute. Also, given that the result of this is many black cruisers boycotting Carnival and bringing this behavior to other cruise lines, it seems bigger than you'd like to admit.
3. Given that it's not just "some white people", even if you want to pretend otherwise is also cute.
Why bother, good question. When the unruly behavior of others, be it cruise ship, Wal Mart, or a public street, affects those who simply want to get on with their vacation, shopping, or driving, eventually people bother. When I watch body cam video of a black woman and her children stealing multiple shopping carts full of stuff from a store and acting offended when she's detained by the cops, or when people go to Walgreens and half of the inventory is locked up because of shoplifters, it affects them.
It's about the behavior of a subculture, it's about simply respecting others.
Nice try to make this a "racist" thing when it's clearly not. But, why is this worthy of posting? Well, it's my blog, I can post what I want. 2. I've been on cruises and will likely do so again, conditions on the boats interest me. 3. I've been stuck behind people ambling down or across a street or weaving on a bike or skateboard completely oblivious to the world around them. I've seen the entitled responses of people caught breaking the law. 4. A culture that can't respect others and show the basic decency of acting as if they understand that they share public spaces with others.
I "brought you into this story" because of your tendency to cry "racism" any time anyone says anything remotely negative about anything related to black people. I know you, and how you tend to act, therefore I took the prudent course of action and proactively addressed the issue.
Of course, you did slip in the accusations of racism in the back door.
I think it's quite clear that neither Craig nor I have suggested there aren't non-black people with this attitude. To a very great extent, however, the prevalence of this among black people has also been affirmed by other black people, as well as in the work of the late Colin Flaherty who, I remind, offered $10,000 for anyone to produce a video depicted white people engaging in the behaviors the large library of video evidence seems to suggest is quite disproportionately "a black thing". It is also evidenced by the reality that in every graduation ceremony of each of my three daughters' grade school, middle school, high school and university ceremonies, it was common to see black families interrupt the announcement of graduates in order to loudly and obnoxiously scream and applaud for their kid. I get it. Graduations might be less common among the black community, such that the current generation is comprised of many "firsts". Worse, this would persist after pleas by the school administrators to refrain from such outbursts. Again, it...at least initially...was "a black thing". Whine "racism" if you like, it's nonetheless true. No amount of black push back against this behavior will prevent you from choosing to accuse whites who push back as well. That's just how you roll...a white-guilted, self-loathing, diversity fraud.
It's abundantly clear.
That challenges like the one you mention, go unmet and since there's not a flood of people posting videos of whites, Asians, Hispanics, engaging in the same level of similar behavior, it seems safe to draw some conclusions from that .
You are right to mention the number of videos of black students physically attacking teachers and other students for even the slightest perceived insult or for the horrible crime of expecting proper classroom behavior. You are also correct to note the increase in disruption of graduation ceremonies by certain students and families. All of the graduations I've been to of late have asked for decorum and restraint as the names are announced, yet 100% of those graduations has seen family members with air horns or screaming when their kid gets announced. Which, of course, means that the next graduate or two gets drowned out by the bullshit. Again the number of videos of this phenomenon is overwhelming.
It's pretty damn simple. Respect the people around you, drop the entitled bullshit, chill out, and turn down the volume in public places. It's not that damn hard.
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